Jak meczet w Monachium stal sie centrum

[manny_ramirez]

PAGE ONE

ISLAM AND EUROPE




radykalnego islamu...

Wiem ze zaraz pewnie oskarzy sie mnie o islamofobie, ale w sytuacji kiedy
nasza cywilizacja na wlasnym lonie pozwala dzialac tym co chca ja zniszczyc
to jak dlugo jeszcze przetrwamy???? Czy demokracja i tolerancja maja oznaczac
zezwolenie na krzewienie bezkarnie propagandy wymierzonej w zniszczenie
naszej cywilizacji??

The Beachhead
How a Mosque for Ex-Nazis
Became Center of Radical Islam

Documents Reveal Triumph
By Muslim Brotherhood
In Postwar Munich
A CIA Plan to Fight Soviets
By IAN JOHNSON
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
July 12, 2005; Page A1

MUNICH, Germany

czesc druga

[manny_ramirez]

Colleagues from this era describe Mr. von Mende as a well-dressed, regal man
with a wry smile, who used his personal charm to win over the exiles

czesc III

[manny_ramirez]

The Brotherhood Arrives

Said Ramadan's arrival in Europe was the result of a clash of ideas that
continues to tear at Islamic societies. At heart, the problem is how to
reconcile Islam with the modern nation-state. Like many religions, Islam is all-
embracing, prescribing behavior in many spheres, politics included. But when
taken literally, these requirements can clash with today's liberal democracies,
which promote individual freedom.

In 1920s Egypt, a young schoolteacher named Hasan al-Banna came down firmly on
the side of orthodoxy. Troubled by what he saw as the immorality of a rapidly
modernizing Egypt, he set up an organization called the Muslim Brotherhood. His
plan was to re-Islamicize society by teaching the fundamentals of Islam in the
everyday language of the coffee shop, not the classical Arabic of mosques. He
set up welfare organizations and was famous for his commitment to social
justice.

But this collided with other visions of Egypt, especially those imported from
the West, such as socialism and fascism. Heavily involved in the turbulent
politics of postwar Egypt, Mr. Banna was assassinated in 1949. A few years
later, a military coup brought in a socialist government that banned the group
in 1954.

Many members were thrown in jail and some were executed. Mr. Ramadan was the
most prominent member to flee abroad. He was Mr. Banna's son-in-law and was
famous for having helped organize Jerusalem's defense against the new state of
Israel in 1948. Few countries in the region wanted to shield Mr. Ramadan; Egypt
was a regional powerhouse and its neighbors were wary of antagonizing it. After
stops in Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Pakistan, he arrived in Geneva in the
summer of 1958 on a Jordanian diplomatic pass, accredited to the U.N. and also
neighboring West Germany.

While in Germany, he set out his ideas in a doctoral thesis called "Islamic
Law: Its Scope and Equity." It was published as a book and became a classic of
modern Islamist thinking.

"He was decent and intelligent," says his doctoral adviser at Cologne
University, Gerhard Kegel, now 93, "if a little fanatical."

Not fanatical in the sense of advocating violence, Mr. Kegel says, but in his
view of a world in which Islam guides all laws and there is no distinction
between religion and state. Mr. Ramadan also published a magazine, Al-
Muslimoon, which surveyed events in the Muslim world and criticized secularism.


Mr. Ramadan, like others in the Muslim Brotherhood, strongly opposed communism
for rejecting religion. During the Cold War, that made him a natural ally of
the U.S. But Mr. Ramadan also opposed the U.S. and other Western countries for
their interference in Mideastern affairs. Then as now, that put people like Mr.
Ramadan in a tough position: They needed to cooperate with the West but didn't
want to be Western collaborators.

Historical evidence suggests that Mr. Ramadan worked with the CIA. At the time,
America was locked in a power struggle with the Soviet Union, which was
supporting Egypt's Gamal Abdel Nasser. As Nasser's enemy, the Brotherhood
seemed like a good ally for the U.S.

A document from the German foreign intelligence service, known by its initials
BND, says the U.S. had helped persuade Jordan to issue Mr. Ramadan a passport
and that "his expenditures are financed by the American side." Swiss diplomats
concurred that the U.S. and Mr. Ramadan were close. According to a 1967
diplomatic report in the Swiss federal archives: "Said Ramadan is, among
others, an information agent of the British and Americans."

When the Swiss newspaper Le Temps reported the contents of the diplomatic
report last year, the Ramadan family responded in a letter to the editor that
read in part: "Our father never collaborated with American or English
intelligence services. He was, on the contrary, the subject of permanent
surveillance for numerous years."

Members of the Ramadan family refused to comment. They include two sons, the
popular Muslim intellectual Tariq and his brother, Hani, who heads an Islamic
center in Geneva that his father set up.

A Fateful Alliance

Although he was fortunate to have escaped the Middle East, Mr. Ramadan's Swiss
exile cut him off from his base of support. He began to look around for allies,
according to colleagues who knew him then. Soon, an opportunity presented
itself: He was contacted in 1958 by some Arab students in Munich eager to build
a new mosque.

The students had come to Germany to study medicine, engineering and other
disciplines in which German education excelled. Many had been involved with the
Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and were also using the chance to escape
persecution. Mr. Ramadan "was a gifted orator and we all respected him," says
Mohamad Ali El-Mahgary, who now heads an organization affiliated with the
Munich mosque, the Islamic Center of Nuremberg.

The students quickly united in wanting to get rid of Mr. Namangani, the former
SS imam. Fired up by Muslim Brotherhood ideology, they saw the Uzbek as a
throwback to an earlier era, one where, for example, local traditions allowed
for drinking alcohol when this was expressly forbidden in the Quran. Over the
next three years, Mr. Ramadan and the Brotherhood showed their political
mettle

czesc IV

[manny_ramirez]

Adding to Mr. von Mende's worries was that the CIA was now openly backing Mr.
Ramadan. In May of 1961, a CIA agent attached to Amcomlib in Munich, Robert
Dreher, brought Mr. Ramadan to Mr. von Mende's office in Düsseldorf for a
meeting to propose a joint propaganda effort against the Soviet Union,
according to Mr. von Mende's personal papers and interviews with contemporaries
of the men. Mr. von Mende quickly turned them down.

Mr. von Mende decided he had to use Mr. Namangani to engineer Mr. Ramadan's
removal. At first, it appeared the two had succeeded. In late 1961, Mr.
Namangani called a meeting of the mosque commission. Mr. Ramadan was accused of
financial irregularities. The soldiers put forward a new candidate and in a
close vote won a simple majority. In memos to each other, German officials
crowed that Mr. Ramadan was gone and with him the plans for a "monumental
mosque."

But a sharp-eyed city government official noted that the commission's by-laws
had required that Mr. Namangani's candidate win a two-thirds majority. The
simple majority hadn't been enough. Once again Mr. Ramadan's ability to
mobilize had been decisive: His students had turned out in force, unlike Mr.
Namangani's more-numerous soldiers. Mr. Ramadan was still in charge of the
mosque commission.

Discouraged, the soldiers began to leave the commission. Mr. Namangani remained
head of the West German organization that oversaw the former soldiers'
spiritual needs, but had nothing more to do with the mosque. In a seven-page
letter to German officials that is now in the Bavarian state archives, Mr.
Namangani explained he was tired of fighting Mr. Ramadan. "The Mosque
Construction Commission has drifted far from its original goal and there is the
danger that it will become a center for those engaged in politics," he wrote.

The emigres' departure from the mosque commission slowed its progress but
didn't hurt it. The German bureaucracy, packed with many former Nazis, was
still sympathetic to the idea of building a mosque, memos among officials show.
They apparently didn't know that their former comrades-in-arms had left the
commission. The West German bureaucracy even gave the mosque project, now
firmly under Muslim Brotherhood control, tax-exempt status, which would be
worth millions over the next decades.

Mr. von Mende, though, realized that his Turks were left in the political
wilderness. In memos to the German foreign ministry, he said the federal
government must do everything possible to block Mr. Ramadan, whom he saw as a
foreign-backed outsider. Whether Mr. von Mende could have stopped Mr. Ramadan
is unknown: In December 1963, while sitting at his desk in Düsseldorf, Mr. von
Mende had a massive heart attack and died immediately. He was 58 years old.

A few months later, his Eastern European Research Service was closed and Mr.
von Mende's network of informants dried up. It would only be decades later,
after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the U.S., that Germany would seriously
focus domestic intelligence on the Brotherhood's Munich operations.

The Banker's Vision

Cloaked from outside scrutiny, the mosque had less and less to do with the
needs of Munich's Muslims. And around this time, evidence of the CIA's
involvement dried up. Instead, control eventually passed to an unlikely
location: Campione d'Italia, a swath of mansions and millionaires in the Swiss
Alps. Here, from a terraced villa overlooking Lake Lugano, one of Mr. Ramadan's
trusted lieutenants, Ghaleb Himmat, ran the Munich mosque and influenced the
network that grew out of it.

Of all the characters in the mosque's history, Mr. Himmat is the most
enigmatic, although he is one of the few still alive. A Syrian, he went to
Munich in the 1950s to study but ended up amassing wealth as a merchant. Now
under investigation by several countries for links to terrorism, he normally
shuns publicity. He agreed to comment briefly on the telephone for this article.

Contemporaries and archival records indicate that Mr. Himmat was a driving
force behind the mosque. In 1958, members of the mosque commission say, he led
the movement to invite Mr. Ramadan to Munich. Documents show that the two
worked closely together. They went on fund-raising trips abroad and Mr. Himmat
stood in for Mr. Ramadan when the older man was back in Geneva.

Mr. von Mende's death should have left Mr. Ramadan firmly in charge of the
project. But over the next few years, he lost control to Mr. Himmat. The exact
nature of their split isn't clear, but close associates say it had to do with
their different nationalities. Mr. Himmat denies this, saying he does not know
why Mr. Ramadan left.

At the same time, Mr. Ramadan was losing the support of his Saudi backers.
Short of money, he stopped publishing his magazine in 1967. Over the last
quarter century until his death in 1995, Mr. Ramadan's influence waned. His son
Tariq describes him in a book as prone to "long silences sunk in memory and
thoughts, and, often, in bitterness."

Mr. Himmat assumed control of the mosque just before it opened in August of
1973. Under his leadership, the mosque grew in importance, functioning as the
Muslim Brotherhood's de facto European embassy. As its influence grew, its name
changed. From Mosque Construction Commission, the group became the Islamic
Community of Southern Germany and, today, the Islamic Community of Germany. It
is now one of the country's most important Islamic organizations, representing
60 mosques and Islamic centers nationwide.

The group also became a cornerstone in a network of organizations that have
promoted across Europe the Muslim Brotherhood way of thinking. The Islamic
Community of Germany, for example, helped found the U.K.-based Federation of
Islamic Organizations in Europe, which unites groups close to the Muslim
Brotherhood and lobbies the European Union.

Mr. Himmat says the mosque has always been open to all Muslims but that the
Brotherhood came to dominate it because its members are the most active. "If
the Muslim Brotherhood considers me one of them, it is an honor for me," Mr.
Himmat said in the telephone interview. "They are nonviolent. They are for
interreligious discussion. They are active for freedom."

For decades, German authorities paid little attention to the activities in
Munich, viewing them as unconnected to German society. They were slow to grasp
the warning signs. In 1993, after a car-bomb attack on the World Trade Center
in New York killed six and injured 1,000, investigators discovered that one of
the organizers was Mahmoud Abouhalima, who had frequented the mosque. He was
tried in the U.S. and in 1994 was sentenced to life in prison without parole.
German domestic intelligence began to observe the mosque, intelligence
officials say, but dropped their efforts after a short while when no links to
terrorism appeared.

The Sept. 11 attacks changed that. Three of the four lead hijackers had studied
in Germany, as did another key organizer. As German and U.S. law enforcement
searched for clues, some, it is only now becoming apparent, led back to the
Munich mosque.

Mr. Himmat, it turned out, was one of the founders of Bank al-Taqwa, a Bahamas-
based institution whose shareholder list is a who's who of people associated
with the Muslim Brotherhood in Europe. The bank has been identified by
investigators in several Western countries as having links to terrorism.
Investigators believe the bank helped channel money to the Palestinian
terrorist group Hamas and may have transferred money for al Qaeda operatives.

In 2001, the U.S. issued a list of "designated" terrorists that included Mr.
Himmat and a fellow shareholder, Youssef Nada. The Treasury Department froze
their U.S. assets. Last month, Swiss authorities dropped their

final

[manny_ramirez]

In 2001, the U.S. issued a list of "designated" terrorists that included Mr.
Himmat and a fellow shareholder, Youssef Nada. The Treasury Department froze
their U.S. assets. Last month, Swiss authorities dropped their own
investigation, citing lack of evidence. The men's money, however, remains
frozen and the U.S. has indicated that it is continuing its investigation.

Messrs. Himmat and Nada deny any involvement in terrorism. A longtime member of
the Munich mosque, Mr. Nada said in an interview that he no longer attends it
or its board meetings. He said the mosque wasn't a formal headquarters for the
Brotherhood because the group is no longer a formal organization. Now, he says,
it has become something different: a matrix of ideas. "There is no form you
sign," Mr. Nada said. "We are not an economic and political organization. We
are a way of thinking."

The U.S. terror-funding investigation was enough to end Mr. Himmat's career at
the Islamic Community of Germany. In 2002, he resigned, he said, because by
being put on the terrorism watch list he was no longer able to sign checks for
the community, meaning it couldn't pay its staff. He says the organization is
doing well on its own and he doesn't contemplate returning to it. "It is
running," he said. "There is no need."

In April, German police raided the mosque, claiming that it was involved with
money laundering and spreading intolerant material, a crime in Germany. Police
carted off computers and files from the offices. That was one of several raids
on the center, although none have resulted in charges.

Mosque officials say the organization's days as a focal point of political
Islam are long over. "This center has developed from a center that was
important in Germany and internationally to a local institution," says Ahmad
von Denffer, a leader of the mosque. The Islamic Community of Germany has since
moved its operations to Cologne, where its current president resides.

Inside the world of political Islam, though, the Islamic Center of Munich
remains something special. Some of the ideology's top leaders have served or
spoken there. And the Muslim Brotherhood's current murshid, or "supreme guide,"
Mahdy Akef, headed the center.

Mr. Akef fondly remembers his time in Munich from 1984 to 1987. A short,
friendly man with an elfish smile and big glasses, Mr. Akef says the center is
now one of several belonging to the Muslim Brotherhood in Europe. During his
stay there, he says, visiting statesmen from the Muslim world visited the
Munich mosque to pay respects to the world's most powerful Islamic
organization. The mosque was so important that when he was arrested in Egypt in
the 1990s on allegations that he had tried to form an Islamic political party,
one of the charges against him was that he headed the center.

The Muslim Brotherhood is still formally banned in Egypt but a tiny office in
Cairo is tolerated. Sitting on a sofa under a map of the world with Muslim
nations colored green, Mr. Akef says the Brotherhood did indeed spread out from
Munich to others cities in Germany and Europe. Mr. Akef is a controversial
figure who has spoken sympathetically about suicide bombers in Iraq. But he
avoids answering questions about terrorism or fundamentalism. Instead, he
prefers to talk about the community work the mosque did in Munich, helping to
beautify a nearby landfill and plant pines in the mosque grounds.

"We made this dump beautiful and now it's full of trees," he says. "It's one of
the most beautiful parts of Germany."

Dobre. Nie ten jeden.Story tego londynskiego znasz

[kropekuk]

Tego,od uroczego immama Abu Hamzy :))))))))))
Nb. jest pierwszy muzulmanski trup - zamordowano Pakistanczyka w Nottingham.
Wg. policji brak indykacji, ze jest to odwet za Londyn, ale niewatpliwie
morderstwo (scislej - zatluczenie, gosc zmarl z obrazen w drodze do szpitala)
ma charakter rasistowski. Sprawcy - grupa gowniarzy.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/4674231.stm
Od switu trwaja policyjne "wejscia smoka" i przeszukania domow w calej Anglii,
zwlaszcza srodkowej i polnocnej w zwiazku z Londynem. Brak info kogo czy czego
szukaja, choc zurnalisty wylaza ze skory, by sie dowiedziec.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4674463.stm
I to by bylo na tyle.

Acha... Obrona cywilizacji rozpoczęta...

[bloczek4]

Czy ty taki glupi, czy tylko glupiego udajesz?

[kropekuk]

Polecam teksty szefa Brytyjskiej Komisji d.s. Rownosci Rasowej, Dr Trevera
Philipsa (poszukaj sobie w necie, parlamencie i na ich stronie). Tylko nie
probuj zwac go, lewaku, RASISTA - uprzedzam, ze gosc jest absolutnie czarny;)

Wejscia smoka w Leeds mialy sens: przed chwila

[kropekuk]

policja dokonala odpalenia ukrytej w jednym z nim bomby. Poki co na stronie BBC
miga tylko zwiastun, ale cos wiecej ma byc za chwile.

A oto link do tych materialow wybuchowych z

[kropekuk]

rewizji w Leeds:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4674463.stm

[manny_ramirez]

dzieki

[rattler]

Pozazdroscic talentu organizacyjnego i imponujaccych wynikow jakimi moga sie
pochwalic po kilku dekadach na obcej ziemi jak na pastuchow i kozojebcow jak
ich tu niektorzy koszerni nazywaja :)

narazie

To nasza cywilizacja jest taka słaba...

[bloczek4]

...że zależy od kazań w meczecie? Czy dziesiątki milionów europejczyków nawraca
się na islam? Komu zależy na podtrzymywaniu tej histerii? Muzułmanów
przebywajacych w Europie deportować? Czy internować ich w obozach czy w
innych "miejscach odosobnienia"?
Czy można pozbawiać ich wolności bez wyroku sądu? Czy powinni mieć prawo do
obrony? Czy trzeba będzie udowodnić im winę, czy obowiązek udowodnienia
niewinności powinien spoczywać na oskarżonych? Czy rozgraniczać jakoś
muzułmanów europejskiego pochodzenia od Afrykanów i Azjatów? Czy muzułmanów
nawracać (można to nazwać "reedukacją") czy "rozwiązać" ten problem w inny
sposób? A jeżeli inny, to jaki?
Stawiam te pytania drugi dzień z kolei i nie moge sie doczekać żadnej
odpowiedzi otwartym tekstem...

zadajesz głupie pytania wiec czego sie spodziewasz

[boski.zawodowiec]

???
Powinienes tez wiedziec ze gdy człowiek jest nastawiany od dziecka przeciwko
innym to takie kazanie w meczecie mozną przyrównac do zapalinika czasowego
ktory odpala bombe.

Ale co w nich głupiego?

[bloczek4]

Chcecie rozwiazać problem islamu, a ja pytam W JAKI SPOSÓB.

co w nich głupiego ? wszystko!

[boski.zawodowiec]

Probujesz wmówić kazdemu kto ma dość muzułmanów ze nie rozni sie niczym od
nazistów.
Problem islamu mozna bez najmniejszego problemu rozwiazać poprzez surowe
przestrzeganie prawa.
Wjechał nielegalnie-do domu
Popełnił przestepstwo-do domu
Bije zone oraz dzieci- do domu
Nie wykazuje checi asymilacji- do domu
Przyznawanie obyatelstwa tez powinno sie zmienic i trzeba wprowadzić okres
probny powiedzmy 10 lat.
Zamiast pracowac regularnie pobiuera zasiłki i obciąza budzet- do domu bo
imigranta wpuszcza sie po to aby mógł pracowac a nie po to aby siedział i
jeszcze kosztował podatnika.
Możlwiosc prawa do zasiłku czy tez innych cudow socajlnych po 30 latach od
przybycia dla wszystkich imigrantów.

I w ten sposób by znikli własnie ci ktorzy najbardziej rozrabiają.

Jak ongi np. Polaków i innych nacji?

[bloczek4]

Przebywajacych i pracujących na czarno, nie znających języka, pijacych,
lejących żony, kradnących, wyciągajacych kasę z socjalu?

[boski.zawodowiec]

My jestesmy w UE to po pierwsze. Po drugie nie słyszałem jeszcze abysmy sie
bawili w terroryzm lub tez w swoich kosiołach wzywali do zabiajnia rdzennych
obywateli panstwa ktore nas przyjmuje.
W Stanach Zjednoczonych jakbyś nie wiedział , panstwie prawa odsyła sie Polaków
gdy złamią prawo. Co do realiów przed wstąpieniem Polski do UE to odsetek
Polaków obciązajacych budzety starej EU15 był mniejszy niz 1% z kolei odsetek
muzułmanów zgłaszajacych sie po zasiłki wynosił około 50% i w dani doszło do
tego ze 40% wszystkich peiniadzy na socjal szło do imigrantów islamskich.
Jednym słowem twoje argumenty sa na poziomie 8 klasisty z wysypem tradzika na
nosie.

A oni pochodzą z terenów...

[bloczek4]

..które europejczycy zbrojnie okupowali i utrzymywali jako własne terytorium
państwowe, dlatego wielu z nich rodziło się u siebie, jako brytyjscy, francuscy
lub holendrescy obywatele (powiedział głupi, pryszczaty dureń)

[marcinmns]

Punkt dla Ciebie nie byloby algierskiego terroryzmu we Francji gdyby nie kolonie

kolejne bzdury bo:

[boski.zawodowiec]

Czy Niemcy okupowali Turcje oraz jaki kolwiek kraj Arabsko-Islamski? Nie wiec
co robią tam miliony Turków i Arabów?
Czy Austria miała jakie kowliek kolonie? NIE
Czy Szwecja okupowała wschodnia Turcje oraz Irak i Iran? Nie a jakims cudem
jest tam masa kurdów oraz Irakijczyków i Iranczyków.
Czy Holandia miała kolonie w Turcji oraz Maroku? NIE a własnie oni tam dominuja
jako mniejszosc islamska.
Czy Włosi Okupowali Albanie oraz Egipt? NIE , okupowali za to Libie a
Libijczyków tam jest bardzo mało w porownaniu z Albanczykami, Bośniakami i
Egipcjanami.
Czy Szwajcaria miała jakie kolwiek kolonie? NIE muzułmanów i innych przybyszów
tam mnóstwo.
Czy Dania okupowała Irak , Turcje lub Maroko? NIE
Co do Hiszpani to ona przez pewien czas okupowała maleńki skrawek dzisiejszego
Maroka wiec tez nie wydaje mi sie aby miała wpuszac miliony marokanczyków z
tego powodu.
Brytyjczycy fakt mieli troche islamskich poisadłosci ale patrząc obiektywnie to
jeszcze dołozyli do tego interesu i zbudowali tam praktycnzie wszystko co tam
dzisiaj jest.
Jesli juz to Francja oraz Turcja powinna muzułmanów europejskich zabrac do
siebie bo są to głownie Marokanczycy, Alagierczycy i Turcy a jak wiadomo Turcja
nie była nigdy niczyja własnościa.

[marcinmns]

Nie mam zamiaru bronic bloczka bo mi "dosala" ale troche jest tak jak on mowi
dlatego napisalem o Algierii bo to wyrazisty przyklad i troche tak jest jak Ty
mowisz. Oczywiscie "pozostalosci kolonialne" to mniejszosc i wiekszy problem
jest w tym o czym mowisz Ty ale jezeli mam bloczka przekonywac to musze mu
przyzna c racje o ile uwazam ze ja ma ale generalnie zgadzam sie z Toba

[manny_ramirez]

wszystko jak najbardziej sie zgadza oprocz jednego
Wlochy okupowaly Albanie

[marcinmns]

Pluja na te cywilizacje i kulture ale od niej cigna Polacy zawsze byli za
wartosciami europejskimi

[manny_ramirez]

swietny program:) Jedyne co bym zmienil to tych legalnych nie wysylal do domu
tylko do paki z odpowiednimi wyrokami

Najwazniejsze, ze NIKT nie zamyka im drogi powrotu

[kropekuk]

do starej ojczyzny, skoro ta nowa sie im nie podoba:)))))))))))

[marcinmns]

Zadam Ci prose pytanie jestes w stanie uciac czlowiekowi glowe nozem? No to
sobie teraz to pomnoz przez dziesiatki tysiecy tych co moga

[manny_ramirez]

wahabiccy imamowie nawolywujacy do wietej wojny powinni byc aresztowani