Die EU und Polen @Michal

Gość: Strzelec Re: EU = FRANKREICH+DEUTSCHLAND ? IP: 159.231.71.* 28.02.03, 16:03

Gość portalu: Knut-Peter napisał(a):

> Nein, keine Sklaven/Untermenschen. Warum so Aggressiv? Why?
> Polen/Polska ein gleichberechtigter Partner in der EU!!!
> DAS und eine gute Nachbarschaft, wünschen wir Deutschen uns von dem
polnischen
> Volk. Ein gleichberechtigter Partner, mit allen Rechten, aber auch Pflichten!!
> Gruss, Knut-Peter
>
>
>
> Gość portalu: Michał napisał(a):
>
> > Alles klar :
> > Deutschland und Frankreich über alles !
> > Und die Anderen ?
> > Sklaven ? Untermenschen ?

Unfortunately I cannot speak German well enough to reply in your language, I am
hoping that you will understand English. I understand written and spoken
German, I just cannot speak it.
Let me begin by saying that I used to be very pro-European and used to think
that joining EU was a good choice for Poland. Not any more.
I used to live in Germany and have very fond memories of the country and the
people. Then I emigrated to Canada and consider it my home. Therefore to some
extent whether Poland joins EU or not is irrelevant to me as it is not going to
affect me personally one way or the other. I used to think though that for my
countrymen and my relatives back home joining EU makes sense.
Unfortunately I cannot help coming to the conclusion that the copuntries of
Western Europe, especially France and Germany pay but a lip service to the
notions of equality and solidarity, but in reality are selfish, self-absorbed
and cynical.

You talk about partnership, equal rights and responsibilities. My question to
you is this: how can you sincerely talk and patronize us about our
responsibilities, when in reality we are not treated as equal partners ?
Our farmers are going to get just 25% of what farmers in France and Germany are
getting in subsidies, Polish workers will be restricted from entering freely
German job market for the next 5-7 years, it is going to take a miracle for
poor Poland not to have to be a net payer to the European budget (translation,
poor Poland is going to support rich French farmers). But you keep on talking
about equal partnership...this is just plain insulting and is the best way to
turn even a staunchest pro-European to vote against European integration in the
upcoming referendum. I know one thing, if I am allowed to vote in the
referendum (as living permanently in Canada), I am going to vote "NO", I cannot
vote "YES" in good consciensce.
Do not get me wrong. I understand that European integration and EU is about
much more than just money and I think it would be fair to say that most people
in Poland do not expect free money and charities from EU, one way or the other.
I personally believe that common agricultural policy is nonsensical and should
be scrapped altogether and I think that Poland, like Germany would support its
reform. But that does not mean that I can turn the blind eye on, among others,
the obviously discriminatory treatment of Polish farmers.

If the Germans and the French are truly concerned about Polish pro-American
sympathies and what they perceive as our divided loyalties, maybe it is high
time they examined their own attitudes towards the Poles. Just talking
platitudes about equal rights and responsibilities will not do.
One cannot help but notice that what Western Europe lacks is simple generosity.
The kind of generosity that guided Americans in rebuilding Europe after WWII,
including the nation they conquered, Germany. If Americans could in their
wisdom extend more generosity towards Germany, their former enemy, than Western
Europe extends to someone they claim is a partner, why wonder then about our
loyalties.
And more importantly, if the Germans and the French truly want to convince the
Poles to show more loyalty to EU, to the idea of European integration, and if
they truly want to balance out somewhat our strong (true or perceived) pro-
American sympathies then I must say that the French president, M. Chirac in his
megalomaniacal delusions, missed a perfect opportunity to simply keep his mouth
shut. I am pretty sure that after his recent public outbursts there are more
people in Poland today that will vote against EU and pro-American feelings in
Poland are stronger than ever.
One cannot help but notice that may be that is exactly what M. Chirac hoped to
achieve. One cannot help but notice that all the talk about partnership,
solidarity, equal rights and responsibilities (as insulting as it is, given the
terms on which we are allowed to join the club), is just that, talk, but in
reality everyone one would be quite happy if Poles rejected EU integration.
Well, the Germans and the French certainly seem to be working towards that
goal...

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Gość: Michał EU = FRANKREICH+DEUTSCHLAND ? IP: *.bielsko.cvx.ppp.tpnet.pl 27.02.03, 13:45

Alles klar :
Deutschland und Frankreich über alles !
Und die Anderen ?
Sklaven ? Untermenschen ?
- Gość: Knut-Peter Re: EU = FRANKREICH+DEUTSCHLAND ? IP: *.pppool.de 27.02.03, 16:09
  
  Nein, keine Sklaven/Untermenschen. Warum so Aggressiv? Why?
  Polen/Polska ein gleichberechtigter Partner in der EU!!!
  DAS und eine gute Nachbarschaft, wünschen wir Deutschen uns von dem polnischen
  Volk. Ein gleichberechtigter Partner, mit allen Rechten, aber auch Pflichten!!
  Gruss, Knut-Peter
  
  Gość portalu: Michał napisał(a):
  
  > Alles klar :
  > Deutschland und Frankreich über alles !
  > Und die Anderen ?
  > Sklaven ? Untermenschen ?
  - Gość: Michał Ich bin nicht so blöd, wie du denkst IP: *.bielsko.cvx.ppp.tpnet.pl 27.02.03, 16:24
    
    Zuerst " EU = FRANKREICH+DEUTSCHLAND"
    und dann "Polen/Polska ein gleichberechtigter Partner in der EU!!!"
    Das ist doch zu lachen !
    - Gość: anka.de Re: Ich bin nicht so blöd, wie du denkst IP: *.pool.mediaWays.net 27.02.03, 16:51
      
      Grausam,grausam euer Deutsch...
    - Gość: Knut-Peter Re: Ich bin nicht so blöd, wie du denkst IP: *.pppool.de 27.02.03, 18:09
      
      Nie Michal, genau so ist das. Diese Erwartungen habe ICH an ein Polen in der
      EU. Gleichberechtigt - Tak!!
      Gruss, Knut-Peter, Webmaster von www.zobten.de
      
      Gość portalu: Michał napisał(a):
      
      > Zuerst " EU = FRANKREICH+DEUTSCHLAND"
      > und dann "Polen/Polska ein gleichberechtigter Partner in der EU!!!"
      > Das ist doch zu lachen !
      >
  - Gość: Strzelec Re: EU = FRANKREICH+DEUTSCHLAND ? IP: 159.231.71.* 28.02.03, 16:03
    
    Gość portalu: Knut-Peter napisał(a):
    
    > Nein, keine Sklaven/Untermenschen. Warum so Aggressiv? Why?
    > Polen/Polska ein gleichberechtigter Partner in der EU!!!
    > DAS und eine gute Nachbarschaft, wünschen wir Deutschen uns von dem
    polnischen
    > Volk. Ein gleichberechtigter Partner, mit allen Rechten, aber auch Pflichten!!
    > Gruss, Knut-Peter
    >
    >
    >
    > Gość portalu: Michał napisał(a):
    >
    > > Alles klar :
    > > Deutschland und Frankreich über alles !
    > > Und die Anderen ?
    > > Sklaven ? Untermenschen ?
    
    Unfortunately I cannot speak German well enough to reply in your language, I am
    hoping that you will understand English. I understand written and spoken
    German, I just cannot speak it.
    Let me begin by saying that I used to be very pro-European and used to think
    that joining EU was a good choice for Poland. Not any more.
    I used to live in Germany and have very fond memories of the country and the
    people. Then I emigrated to Canada and consider it my home. Therefore to some
    extent whether Poland joins EU or not is irrelevant to me as it is not going to
    affect me personally one way or the other. I used to think though that for my
    countrymen and my relatives back home joining EU makes sense.
    Unfortunately I cannot help coming to the conclusion that the copuntries of
    Western Europe, especially France and Germany pay but a lip service to the
    notions of equality and solidarity, but in reality are selfish, self-absorbed
    and cynical.
    
    You talk about partnership, equal rights and responsibilities. My question to
    you is this: how can you sincerely talk and patronize us about our
    responsibilities, when in reality we are not treated as equal partners ?
    Our farmers are going to get just 25% of what farmers in France and Germany are
    getting in subsidies, Polish workers will be restricted from entering freely
    German job market for the next 5-7 years, it is going to take a miracle for
    poor Poland not to have to be a net payer to the European budget (translation,
    poor Poland is going to support rich French farmers). But you keep on talking
    about equal partnership...this is just plain insulting and is the best way to
    turn even a staunchest pro-European to vote against European integration in the
    upcoming referendum. I know one thing, if I am allowed to vote in the
    referendum (as living permanently in Canada), I am going to vote "NO", I cannot
    vote "YES" in good consciensce.
    Do not get me wrong. I understand that European integration and EU is about
    much more than just money and I think it would be fair to say that most people
    in Poland do not expect free money and charities from EU, one way or the other.
    I personally believe that common agricultural policy is nonsensical and should
    be scrapped altogether and I think that Poland, like Germany would support its
    reform. But that does not mean that I can turn the blind eye on, among others,
    the obviously discriminatory treatment of Polish farmers.
    
    If the Germans and the French are truly concerned about Polish pro-American
    sympathies and what they perceive as our divided loyalties, maybe it is high
    time they examined their own attitudes towards the Poles. Just talking
    platitudes about equal rights and responsibilities will not do.
    One cannot help but notice that what Western Europe lacks is simple generosity.
    The kind of generosity that guided Americans in rebuilding Europe after WWII,
    including the nation they conquered, Germany. If Americans could in their
    wisdom extend more generosity towards Germany, their former enemy, than Western
    Europe extends to someone they claim is a partner, why wonder then about our
    loyalties.
    And more importantly, if the Germans and the French truly want to convince the
    Poles to show more loyalty to EU, to the idea of European integration, and if
    they truly want to balance out somewhat our strong (true or perceived) pro-
    American sympathies then I must say that the French president, M. Chirac in his
    megalomaniacal delusions, missed a perfect opportunity to simply keep his mouth
    shut. I am pretty sure that after his recent public outbursts there are more
    people in Poland today that will vote against EU and pro-American feelings in
    Poland are stronger than ever.
    One cannot help but notice that may be that is exactly what M. Chirac hoped to
    achieve. One cannot help but notice that all the talk about partnership,
    solidarity, equal rights and responsibilities (as insulting as it is, given the
    terms on which we are allowed to join the club), is just that, talk, but in
    reality everyone one would be quite happy if Poles rejected EU integration.
    Well, the Germans and the French certainly seem to be working towards that
    goal...
- old.european USA = Gott / Polen = Kanonenfutter? 01.03.03, 18:52
  
  Gość portalu: Michał napisał(a):
  
  > Alles klar :
  > Deutschland und Frankreich über alles !
  > Und die Anderen ?
  > Sklaven ? Untermenschen ?
  - Gość: Michał Bist du wirklich so dumm ? IP: *.bielsko.cvx.ppp.tpnet.pl 01.03.03, 19:36
    
    Hast du polnisch vergessen ?
Gość: . Schroeder kaput! IP: 204.52.178.* 27.02.03, 17:39
- Gość: Knut-Peter Re: Schroeder kaput! IP: *.pppool.de 27.02.03, 18:14
  
  Das ist wohl ein Missverstaendniss. Schroeder ist nicht Niemcy....
  Dobry wieczor, Knut-peter, Webmaster von www.zobten.de
  - Gość: . Ja, ja naturlich. Mein trabant ist fantastic! IP: 204.52.178.* 28.02.03, 18:17

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