Second-hand Non-controversy Shock!

[ianek70]

Last year, a boy sang a song on Dutch TV about how his parents are sometimes
strict, sometimes cool. Both of his dads (they're gay) take care of him and
share domestic duties.
Happy families don't seem to shock the Dutch too much, but the sensation-
hungry conservative Polish gutter press recently discovered a clip of this on
the Internet (they'd presumably been typing the words 'gay' and 'young boy'
into their wyszukiwarka, but I'm not going to judge them) and since nothing
more interesting has been happening in the world, they decided to write about
it.
Like most stories in the Wyborcza, it was stolen from someone else, but I
can't be bothered looking for the original Rzeczpospolita article.
serwisy.gazeta.pl/swiat/1,34174,3806871.html
Do you think Dutch newspapers write about how Polish homos get married to
women and live a sick, depressing double life of denial, self-hatred and lies?

[usenetposts]

I think these people need the gay spanked out of them

Look what happened to one guy:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYRhVcJsypg

[chris-joe]

At least one got fixed in time. Well, almost.

That's for real or SNL (do not confuse win S&M)?

Gotta wipe coffee off my pc monitor now. Thanks Dave.

[asiaasia1]

I agree, Ianek. I'm sick and tired of such reactions on gay families. Hey, you
ignorant journalists, Poland is not everywhere! Definitely not in H(P)olland...
Mohairs are rulling this country only, I haven't met them in Amsterdam.

Happy New Year!

Dutch standards are not better then Polish ones...

[waldek1610]

Well, just because some heterosexual marriages are indeed bad, doesn't
necessary means that gay marriages will be a recipe for "lived happy ever
after"...

As we already begin to observe gay marriages in countries that legalized it,
alraedy split, get divorced, and so forth.

[chris-joe]

That an argument against gay marriage, or marriage in general, waldek?

[waldek1610]

chris-joe napisał:

> That an argument against gay marriage, or marriage in general, waldek?

Actually both... but many gay rights activists use the argument that many
children raised by straight couples, are neglected, abused, and so forth....as
if gay couples were better suited for raising children.

Well, it depends, but gay couples have an advatnage because they haven't had a
chance to prove themselves wrong yet.

Personally I believe that gay couples doesn't necessary make better unions then
oposite sex marraiges, but I tend to think that homosexual people are in it
more for sex rather then for lifetime comitment nor raising kids....

[chris-joe]

"as if gay couples were better suited for raising children"
-Agreed. Straight, homo or bi- there is no guarantee.

"gay couples have an advatnage because they haven't had a chance to prove
themselves wrong yet."
-By now, they have so. We've had plenty of gay-straight, gay-bi, gay-gay
couples throughout the centuries who as parents have fared no worse, and no
better neceserily than str-str ones.
As for the last 2-3 decades, when a number of openly gay couples opted for
gearing up kids, the research results are mostly inconclusive, but no dramatic
deviations from the norm have been noted either.

"homosexual people are in it more for sex rather then for lifetime comitment nor
raising kids"
-believe me, waldek- and this comes from a guy who's been in a gay couple
situation for six years- have I been "in it" for sex, I would still be a single
man today. Rings the bell?
But then again: why a good, or really good, sex life of parents should
constitute an impediment to having kids?
And as for kids: my partner mentioned adoption some 3 yrs ago. I threatened him
with divorce: I was 40 by then for chrissake!!!

[waldek1610]

chris-joe napisał:

> -believe me, waldek- and this comes from a guy who's been in a gay couple
> situation for six years- have I been "in it" for sex, I would still be a
> single man today. Rings the bell?

I don't quite understand what did you mean, after all I'm a heterosexual men
so, can you elaborate on that? Did you mean you needed more of the "soulmate"
rather then the lover?


> But then again: why a good, or really good, sex life of parents should
> constitute an impediment to having kids?

Well, from interaction I had with gay men, my female ex had childhood friend
who is gay, and it seems to me that he and his boyfriend are bit too much
preoccupied with their own sexuall orientation, and they lifestile that they
don't care much for children. We would hand out together ocasionally and they
seem quite cool and friendly though.

> And as for kids: my partner mentioned adoption some 3 yrs ago. I threatened
> him with divorce: I was 40 by then for chrissake!!!

Well, its your choice, wheather you like kids or not, but I just remember my
uncle who passed away last year, he remained bachelor whole his life although
he was straight, and while visiting us when we were still kids, he used to say
to my mom and his sister; "Kto ma pszczoly ten ma miod, kto ma dzieci ten ma
smrod"...

Well, I don't want to say bad things about person who passed away already but,
after grandma died and my whole familly all emigrated to the US, he died barely
half year after my sister and her family joined us in US...He got cancer, soon
afterwards, although untill his death at 67 he looked 50 and had perfect sporty
apearence...

I'm saying this because I think that when you are old you need someone to take
care of you, or at least for a company....

[usenetposts]

I think one is kidding one'sself if one treats kids as a way of being sure that
you won't be left on your own in old age. That depends on skilful upbringing
and then a lot of luck.

Last night, a lot of people from our church were invited to one couple's house
for a big party, and it started in the early afternoon until the new year came
in. Well, after everyone left, of course the couple hosting - a very lovely
pair of people, let me tell you - must have been very tired. Whether they would
have noticed their littlest baby was choking to death in time had they not been
so tired, I have no idea, but had I been at that party, I would certainly have
felt co-responsible.

Anyway, that baby is in heaven now, safe from whatever horrors 2007 may hold.

If you don't have children, you don't need to fear cot death, and all the other
ways a child can get ill or die. But you will never see the child smile,
neither will there be a soul in heaven for the child who is never born as there
is for the child who dies.

"Let the little child come unto Me, and forbid them not, for of such is the
Kingdom of Heaven".

[waldek1610]

The story you just told about that child, was very sad...
You could say; "Nieznane sa wyroki Nieba...."

But you can not live your life fearing the worst will happened to you, of
course things happen but all you can do is make best out of what you have...

[chris-joe]

I think I already spoke once of the Dutch obsession rampant amongst the Polish
ultra right. Sweden (or "Scandinavia") gets there similar rap.

Their morality monitors must be glued to the Dutch media 24/7. And, maybe,
that's a good think?