cos mi tu nie gra...

[Gość: hopik]

hi. i make additional money by teaching english using the callan method. in
stage 5 (i think) there is such a question:
What's the longest you've ever lain in bed for when you've been ill? and the
answer is supposed to be: The longest I've ever lain in bed for when I've
been ill was .... days.
something stinks in this sententce, namely the second use of the present
perfect. could you share your views on it with me? i'd be very grateful.

[Gość: magdak5]

Przepraszam, że napiszę nie na temat....
Ale jeśli uczysz angielskiego tą metodą to czy możesz ją polecić, dla kogoś
takiego jak ja ? Lubię pisać, sporo rozumiem, ale ciężko mi mówić....muszę się
przełamać. Po teście zakwalifikowałam się do 4 lub 5 poziomu. Byłam raz,
podobało mi się jak prowadził pewien chłopak... gorzej z inną dziewczyną. Czy
to dobra metoda aby szybko nauczyć się mówić ?
Zapisałam się do English Best Way.
Pozdrawiam
Magda

[Gość: hopik]

owszem, polecam ja, bardzo "rozgaduje". ma oczywiscie swoje wady, ale do
średniozaawansowanego poziomu jest dobra, a najlepsza dla początkujacych, bo
sie podniecaja ze mowia, i pozniej sie nie boja mowic. dla bardziej
zaawansowanych moze byc nudna, poniewaz nie ma miejsca na wyrazenie wlasnych
mysli po swojemu.
tak czy siak, trzeba samemu ogladac tv po ang, czytac itp.

[u-boot_88]

Yeah, something stinking in the answer: when you use "when" you determine
a "moment in time" - therefore the answer should contain Past Simple. In my
opinion the answer should be: "The longest I've ever lain in bed when I was ill
was ... days".

[hopik]

exactly, that's how i felt about it. do you think the question is formed
properly?

[chickenshorts]

hopik napisała:
> exactly, that's how i felt about it. do you think the question is formed
> properly?

"What's the longest you've ever lain in bed for when you've been ill?"

Can't imagine anyone asking this and I pride myself on being quite an
imaginative guy... Jeesus!
What's the longest you've ever stayed in bed when (you were) ill?, is the
obvious for me!

" ...and the
answer is supposed to be: The longest I've ever lain in bed for when I've
been ill was .... days."

Bleedin'ell!

Is Callan torturing some Straw English or what?

[hopik]

hi chickenshorts.
now, lain is not the problem here - i can buy it, but the use of present
perfect. i feel that in both answer and question it should be "when you
were/when i was ill"

[u-boot_88]

Callan or not Callan - doesn't matter. An usual guy would say: What's the
longest you've ever stayed in bed when yoy were sick? And another usual guy
should reply: The longest I've stayed in bed when I was sick was 318 days. That
was cancer, unfortunately..".

[milusiaa]

I bardzo słusznie, że Ci nie gra, bo nie powinno. Straszna metoda tez Callan,
przepraszam, że przy okazji wyrażę swoją opinię, brrrrr ;)

Jeśli chodzi o "...when I've been ill", to, oczywiście, użyjemy czasu Past
Simple,bo:
-znamy konkretnie czas chorowania
-"was...days", co sugeruje, że chorowaliśmy kiedyś w przeszłości, a nie obecnie
-nie ma żadnych skutków choroby widocznych w teraźniejszości (ciągle jest chory
czy był kiedyś?)

A zdanie tragiczne, nikt tak nie powie. Obawiam się, że nikt tak nawet nie
napisze;) Besides, English speaking people >stay< in bed when they are ill.

Pozdrawiam i życzę zdrowia w nauczaniu tą metodą;)

[hopik]

good. i've always known it's wrong, but a part of me sort of trusted the
printed word... so i was trying to see that maybe in some strange circumstances
it can be said like that.
yeah, the method leaves a lot to be desired, but it's not that bad. it's true
that sometimes the language they use is weird, but it's still correct
english... as much as we don't like it.

[Gość: ryt]

Nothing stinks in this sentence.

First of all, the sense of it is easy to grasp no matter what tense is used in
the when-cause.
We can write
What's the longest you've ever lain in bed for (when) ill?

Second, this "when" is a conjunction and doesn't have to carry a temporal sense.
I say this when can mean "bearing in mind, considering". What's the longest
you've ever lain in bed for, bearing in mind you've been ill? (no hanky-panky)

Third, you can stay and lie in bad.

Fourth, Milussia is totally confused again.

[Gość: ryt]

Almost forgot.
A temporal "when" works here too.

[milusiaa]

Gość portalu: ryt napisał(a):

> Third, you can stay and lie in bad. (bed)
>
> Fourth, Milussia is totally confused again. (totaly)


;)

[chickenshorts]

Gość portalu: ryt napisał(a):

> Nothing stinks in this sentence.

Balls! The whole bloody sentence stinks to high heaven.

> First of all, the sense of it is easy to grasp no matter what tense is used in

"Kali kochac duzo lezec" is even easier to grasp.

[u-boot_88]

Bloody bullshit! Thinking this way means that negroes in US ghettos use the
best & understandable English. " I R Baboon".

[ampolion]

Co nie gra to twoja ortografia: zapominasz o dużych literach, upper case.

[Gość: natka]

upper-case letters- sounds weird. I would say "capitals".

[hopik]

wow, i didn't expect such a disucussion!
i agree with ryt that you can lie in bed. maybe stay is more natural, but you
can lie in it as well.

Grammarians, be damned...

[chickenshorts]

Whether or not it's possible to 'rescue' that controversial sentence is a moot
point. The real question is: does it deserve defending? Are you persuasive
enough to successfully argue "bearing in mind" into "when" in this case? Maybe.
But why?

Firstly, even if you follow Qintillian's 2.000 years old advice "One shouldn't
aim at being possible to understand but at being impossible to misunderstand",
which of the two sentences is more muddled:
" What's the longest you've ever stayed in bed when yoy were sick?" or "What's
the longest you've ever lain in bed for when you've been ill?"

But the most important point is that this kind of nonsense is being crammed
into the heads of gullible students of English who pay for learning an
important skill. That's what the language communication basically is: a skill.
And what they get is some surreal extraction of grammarians' tortured efforts.

Be damned, oh ye!

[milusiaa]

Do you read my thoughts?;) Thank you for saying that, chickenshorts, that is
exactly the point.