BE and AE

25.07.02, 22:39
What do you think about so-called "American English"? Of course, there are
differents: pronunciation, vocabulary, and of course ABBREVIATIONS -
Americans love it. I live now in USA 'n I see the differents between my
English English :), and here's people's language. What do you think. Should
we learn two separate languages? American English and British English,
hmmm..greets...mateusz06
    • mamosz Re: BE and AE 25.07.02, 23:40
      Well we should at least be aware of unbelievable richness of engilsh and do our
      best to know as much as possible.
    • Gość: ABeCe Re: BE and AE IP: *.poleczki.dialup.inetia.pl 25.07.02, 23:43
      t's stupid what u suggest. otherwise we would have to learn jamaican english,
      australian english, english from the rsa etc. what's the point? you can speak
      potato or potejto - fair enough if you're understood. rgds
      • Gość: ipfreely Re: BE and AE IP: *.peaknet.net 26.07.02, 03:18
        "jamaican me crazy" - (just a play of words).
      • Gość: mamosz Re: BE and AE IP: *.acn.pl / 10.128.131.* 26.07.02, 13:22
        Gość portalu: ABeCe napisał(a):

        > t's stupid what u suggest. otherwise we would have to learn jamaican english,
        > australian english, english from the rsa etc. what's the point? you can speak
        > potato or potejto - fair enough if you're understood. rgds
        The richness of the language is not the thing you are aware of if the only word
        u can use is "stupid". I meant to be aware not to to leearn all variations.The
        more you know the more interesting person you are.That`s obvious that to
        comunicate is the first thing but when you are more or less communicative it`is
        also nice to sound interesting or at least reasonable.And is also nice to know
        what is the proper language for certain situation,don`t you think so ?
        • Gość: ABeCe Re: BE and AE IP: *.chello.pl 28.07.02, 00:23
          The more one know does not necessarily make one more interesting. The question
          is how you can pass that knowledge on others.
          Besides I have to dissapoint you lady but being a concious person I am aware
          of different dialects, jargons, variantions, slang etc, so please dont judge
          people upon your first impression.
          rgds.
    • maurycy Re: BE and AE 26.07.02, 09:03
      We've got to set standards of English, otherwise in a century or so we will end
      up with Australian English, American English, Hindustani English, Pakistani
      English, Jamaican English and so forth, and the differemces between various
      dialects will make the mutual understanding impossible. English is the native
      language of England and we all should strive (whatever a dialect we are using)
      to maintain basic English standards.

      Recently, there has been a very heated discussion (have a peep into Manchester
      Guardian archves)about emergence of Euro-English. This is a very new entity,
      which should be taken into account, which will influence the development of the
      language in the nearest future.
      • Gość: Nikita Re: BE and AE IP: 195.136.95.* 26.07.02, 09:31
        there are and will be more different English "versions". it's unavoidable. but
        it is important to learn proper English and be aware of the differences that
        may cause some trouble if we are misunderstood. (different words in BE and AE
        for the same thing or different meaning of the same word).
        the worst attitude is "correct or not, just to communicate", that for me means
        DUMB.
      • Gość: jorgen Re: BE and AE IP: *.man.polbox.pl 26.07.02, 11:25
        maurycy napisał:

        English is the native language of England and we all should strive (whatever a
        dialect we are using)to maintain basic English standards.

        That's the stupidest thing you can say about English! What abot American or
        Autralian standards? I will not strive to talk in the language used by any bum
        hanging around on a London street. Did you ever read any non-BE literature?

        HAND
      • herya Re: BE and AE 26.07.02, 13:35
        From what I know it's also called "European generic" and certainly it will
        influence the English universe in many ways, especially if we consider growing
        popularity of English, German and French as EU languages; together with new EU
        countries there will be 21 languages used and I don't think it will be possible
        to traslate all the documents into all the languages. See very interesting
        article in Forum (last issue).
      • Gość: Prezes Re: BE and AE IP: *.ces.clemson.edu 26.07.02, 18:11
        maurycy napisał:

        > We've got to set standards of English, otherwise in a
        century or so we will end
        >
        > up with Australian English, American English,
        Hindustani English, Pakistani
        > English, Jamaican English and so forth, and the
        differemces between various
        > dialects will make the mutual understanding impossible.
        English is the native
        > language of England and we all should strive (whatever
        a dialect we are using)
        > to maintain basic English standards.
        >

        why ? Standards do evolve.
        We certainly use a different language than
        people living a century before, not to mention
        people from midle ages.
        There is no practical way to enforce any "rules"
        in a language. It will develop free like a
        free spirit it stands for. For better of for worse.
        Anyone who tries to "preserve the purity" of a language
        sooner or later realizes that it is a fruitless task.
        Many people and institutions attempted it, noone
        succeded.

        It reminds me of "language cops" who few years ago
        roamed the streets of Montreal with rulers
        to measure letters and make sure that French signs in
        stores and businesses are at least as big as English.

        I seriously doubt that such an approach would lead
        to a greater popularity or respect for French
        among people of Quebec or of the whole country.

        We ought to aknowledge the fact that English
        became an international language (like it or not),
        at least for now, and that more and more non-native
        speakers will use it. This will inevitably lead
        to a greater variety and less orthodoxy in the language.


        > Recently, there has been a very heated discussion (have
        a peep into Manchester
        > Guardian archves)about emergence of Euro-English. This
        is a very new entity,
        > which should be taken into account, which will
        influence the development of the
        >
        > language in the nearest future.

        I do not see it as a necessary bad thing.
        It is just an interesting and, as I mentioned before,
        inevitable phenomenon.
        • maurycy Re: BE and AE 27.07.02, 11:54
          The mother tongue of all English speakers is English in its various forms -
          Aussie, US, Pakistani, Irish, etc. There are all interfaced and influence each
          other. I am only worried that one day, this richness of veriety will hamper
          usage of English as the lingua franca of all English speaking nations. This had
          happened to many languages. Ten centuries ago, the Poles, the Czechs, the
          Rutinians (Western Russians) and other Slavonic tribes spoke rather similar
          lingo. Nowadays, it is only easy for us to learn to understand any of them.
          What I am afraid of is that one day we will have to learn US English or Aussie
          to understand them, if we don't keep one standard.

          N.B. most of prestigeous US universities keep the British standard of English
          and the New England pronounciation as their standard.
          • Gość: erwas Re: BE and AE IP: 12.96.204.* 28.07.02, 03:02
            sorry maurycy, no offence n' all that, but perhaps you wrote your missive in a
            bad moment and it does not make very much sense to me.

            maurycy napisał:

            > The mother tongue of all English speakers is English in its various forms

            OK, can't argue with that


            > Aussie, US, Pakistani, Irish, etc. There are all interfaced and influence
            >each other. I am only worried that one day, this richness of veriety will
            >hamper usage of English as the lingua franca of all English speaking nations.

            as they say in Poland, you can't reverse the course of the Vistula with a stick.
            each of these cultures, which you mention has it's own context, which has to
            expressed in it's own terms, in it's own idiom, volcabulary, and form. they're
            not destroying English, they're merely diverging into what's natural to them,
            the way languages always do, while leaving English English to remain as it is.
            After all, Latin is still Latin, Sanscrit Sanscrit, Old Hebrew Old Hebrew even
            Old Slavonic lingers on as a liturgical language for some.

            > This had happened to many languages. Ten centuries ago, the Poles, the
            >Czechs, the Rutinians (Western Russians) and other Slavonic tribes spoke
            >rather similar lingo. Nowadays, it is only easy for us to learn to understand
            >any of them. What I am afraid of is that one day we will have to learn US
            >English or Aussie. to understand them, if we don't keep one standard.

            so? you regret that Polish developed into a seperate language? look at all the
            richness and diversity all the differet and seperate Slavonic cultures brought
            to world civilization.
            "Life is plurality, death is uniformity. By suppressing differences and
            peculiarities, by eliminating different civilizations and cultures, progress
            weakens life and favors death. The ideal of a single civilization for everyone,
            implicit in the cult of progress and technique, impoverishes and mutilates us."
            (Octavio Paz)

            > N.B. most of prestigeous US universities keep the British standard of English
            > and the New England pronounciation as their standard.

            here I might just add that most of the recent innovation, new volcabulary, and
            vitality which the English as spoken in Britain has, is borrowed from other
            English speaking countries, mostly from the US.
          • maurycy Re: BE and AE 28.07.02, 10:38
            Do certainly agree with some of your points Of course BE used to be influnced
            mostly by the Raj, but now it is being strongly influenced by AE and
            Australian, doesn't matter whether the English like it or not.

            You missunderstood my point about Polish. I only wanted to give an example what
            happens to a lingua franka. It disintegrates. New languages were borne from
            Oold Slavonic, new languages were born from Latin. This is an unstoppable
            process and I am afraid that in coule of hundred years all the forms of English
            will become new languages. We will have American, Australian etc., but they
            will be as diverse as Spanish and Italian or Polish and Czech.

            There exists other possibility too. On top of national languages based on
            English, a new entity will appear, some kind of siplified commercial and
            political English, a pidgin version of Euroinglish to be used by the
            foreigners.

            Best regards,

            Maurycy
            • Gość: mamosz Re: BE and AE IP: *.acn.pl / 10.128.131.* 28.07.02, 16:10
              Well,and now,how difficult is the position of an English teacher in Poland who
              has to teach more or less standard English to strongly influenced by its hip-
              hop variation young people.Who do not have enough knowledge to feel that it is
              just a very special variation not to be used in most situations.
            • Gość: Prezes Re: BE and AE IP: *.ces.clemson.edu 29.07.02, 17:39
              maurycy napisał:

              > Do certainly agree with some of your points Of course
              BE used to be influnced
              > mostly by the Raj, but now it is being strongly
              influenced by AE and
              > Australian, doesn't matter whether the English like it
              or not.
              >
              > You missunderstood my point about Polish. I only wanted
              to give an example what
              >
              > happens to a lingua franka. It disintegrates.

              so what ? Greek had its time, Latin had its time,
              then Spanish and German were quite "international"
              as well, now it is English. Perhaps it will be
              another language in the future. This is a normal
              process, usually strongly correlated to economic
              and military strength of a certain political entity.
              Once that power dissapeared the language lost
              its international influence.


              >New languages were borne from
              > Oold Slavonic, new languages were born from Latin. This
              is an unstoppable
              > process and I am afraid that in coule of hundred years
              all the forms of English
              >
              > will become new languages. We will have American,
              Australian etc., but they
              > will be as diverse as Spanish and Italian or Polish and
              Czech.
              >

              That is a possibility, of course, but I do not think
              we should worry too much about it.
              First of all (assuming your predictions are right),
              none of us will probably live long enough
              to see these things actually happen.
              Second, I seriously doubt that the different dialects
              of contemporary English will ever evolve into separate
              languages. The primary reason for formation of new
              languages was physical separation of groups of people.
              As long as we have internet, satelite TV, wireless
              phones and global news outlets, there can be no
              separation, thus the probability of an emergence
              of a new language is rather low.

              Unless we come to a point where some massive
              catastrophe on a global scale wipes out
              all the intercontinental communication,
              we will not see formation of any new languages.
              They will certainly evolve and influence
              each other even more than ever, but this
              should lead to a better communication between
              different nations, not worse...

              > There exists other possibility too. On top of national
              languages based on
              > English, a new entity will appear, some kind of
              siplified commercial and
              > political English, a pidgin version of Euroinglish to
              be used by the
              > foreigners.
              >

              You are probably right about it. And you know what ?
              There is nothing we can do about it. Not a squat.
              So why worry ?

              > Best regards,
              >
              > Maurycy
    • Gość: Paul Re: BE and AE IP: *.proxy.aol.com 29.07.02, 20:32
      mateusz06 napisał:

      > What do you think about so-called "American English"? Of course, there are
      > differents: pronunciation, vocabulary, and of course ABBREVIATIONS -
      > Americans love it. I live now in USA 'n I see the differents between my
      > English English :), and here's people's language. What do you think. Should
      > we learn two separate languages? American English and British English,
      > hmmm..greets...mateusz06
      Why won't you start just by learning proper English, so anybody can actually
      understand what the hell are you trying to say. It’s way to early for you my
      friend to elaborate and distinguish between different slang and regional every
      day chat. My best, keep up the good work.
      "So called" Paul

      • maggie7 Re: BE and AE 31.07.02, 01:56
        Gość portalu: Paul napisał(a):

        > Why won't you start just by learning proper English, so anybody can actually
        > understand what the hell are you trying to say. It’s way to early for yo
        > u my
        > friend to elaborate and distinguish between different slang and regional
        every
        > day chat. My best, keep up the good work.
        > "So called" Paul


        Well Paul... it's not nice to make fun of someone else's language skills, if
        yours are not perfect. However, if you ARE striving for better English, take
        some time and read the passage below that I was kind enough to correct for
        you.:) Take care, my dear...


        *************************************
        Why DON'T you JUST start TO LEARN proper English, so EVERYbody can actually
        understand what the hell you ARE trying to say. It’s way TOO early for you, my
        friend, to try to distinguish between different slangs and regional DIALECTS.
        My best, keep up the good work.
        "So called" Paul
        *************************************
        • Gość: topsyturvy hey maggie, paul's right IP: *.nyc.rr.com 01.08.02, 03:00
          C'mon now.
          The guy can barely put two words together and all he is concerned with is
          AE or BE. Does it make a "diffrents"?
          • maggie7 Re: hey maggie, paul's right 01.08.02, 04:21
            sure... The point is, though, that Paul corrects others, while his English is
            not that great. That's all. :)
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