I hope Turkey goes ahead and bans the Pope's visit

[usenetposts]

It'll be one more argument for not letting them in the EU.

[nasza_maggie]

Oh let them go banning left, right and center. You know, I don't think they're
that botherd about the EU somehow...

[brookie]

I'd be beneficial for EU not to let the Turks in. But with the Turks or
without, it doesn't make such a big difference now. All those Algierians,
Maroccans, etc are already there and there's already enough struggle to keep
Europe together at the time being.

[usenetposts]

brookie napisała:

> I'd be beneficial for EU not to let the Turks in. But with the Turks or
> without, it doesn't make such a big difference now. All those Algierians,
> Maroccans, etc are already there and there's already enough struggle to keep
> Europe together at the time being.

Sure there are a bunch of Islamic people in the formerly colonial nations, but
something should be done about that also. If they don't share the values of
their home countries, then there should be programmes in place to help them to
abodes when their views are in harmony with the surroundings.

If they do love the values of France or Britain, then they should be able to
stay. I am not in favour of making decisions based on race or origin, but on
what people have going on in their head, and whether they are part of the
struggle for sharia or not.

There are Algerians in France, but Algeria is not in the EU. Only a small
proportion of the Algerian people are in the EU. We are talking about all of
Turkey.

Now I am aware that there are a whole bunch of Turkish people who don't want
islamic rule anymore than I do, but who cannot even come clean about their
views in their own society. I would love to have these people in the EU, but
how to have them in without letting the others in, the sort that think B16
shouldn't visit Turkey now (where the Church was long before the mosque,
incidentally) and who think that writers who denounce the Armenian genocide
should be in prison - as one is - for their pains?

Have been in turkey

[szahtut]

Please stop your propaganda,Il looks you have a big problem inside your heart,
I believe that our Jesus do beleive in the love and to the other.
what the hell, I have been in Turkey as tourist. it is great nations always
smilling in your face. welcome even you can enter to their Mosques, by the way
I so what we called a tolerant and if you don't beleive me Haja Sophia is one
example.
smille, and spread a love, jesus is not only for us but for all.

[marcus_anglikiem]

wise words Dave. Ree-spec! as dem say on da street

what the point????

[szahtut]

brookie napisała:

> I'd be beneficial for EU not to let the Turks in. But with the Turks or
> without, it doesn't make such a big difference now. All those Algierians,
> Maroccans, etc are already there and there's already enough struggle to keep
> Europe together at the time being.

Bla bla bla,
Just gies back in the history,only 25 years ago, you forget when we said the
comunist and the rest is shit. Ok you forget the berlin wall, he he when the
those algerians and ... were building the countries and we were only drinking
the beer and the vodkaaaaaaa. so why we are toooo far just remenber our polish
in UK just ask them, or maybe I need to go to Italy.

so think deeply before throwing you cabbage.

[usenetposts]

nasza_maggie napisała:

> Oh let them go banning left, right and center. You know, I don't think
they're
> that botherd about the EU somehow...

An article in today's GW (paper version - I read it on the plane) cited about
50% in favour now vis a vis 70% in favour some years ago. So much the better.

[marcus_anglikiem]

nasza_maggie napisała:

> Oh let them go banning left, right and center. You know, I don't think
they're
> that botherd about the EU somehow...

not bothered? haven't they been trying for something like 40 years ?

Any relation to the forum?

[lmblmb]

usenetposts napisał:

> It'll be one more argument for not letting them in the EU.

What does it have to do with "Foreigners living in Poland"?

[usenetposts]

lmblmb napisał:

> usenetposts napisał:
>
> > It'll be one more argument for not letting them in the EU.
>
> What does it have to do with "Foreigners living in Poland"?
>

I'm a foreigner, and I said it.

That's what it has to do with it.

And of course it means that if Turkey does join, then the sorts of foreigners
that can come and live in Poland without needing any permit will be a jolly
sight more foreign than the ones who are here under the Treaty of Rome now.

So I think it has quite a bit to do with it, although I didn't realise that I
had handed over to you the moderation of this group. But I'll answer the
question anyway.

this is Poland and it will be for Polishh for ever

[szahtut]

usenetposts napisał:

> lmblmb napisał:
>
> > usenetposts napisał:
> >
> > > It'll be one more argument for not letting them in the EU.
> >
> > What does it have to do with "Foreigners living in Poland"?
> >
>
> I'm a foreigner, and I said it.
>
> That's what it has to do with it.
>
> And of course it means that if Turkey does join, then the sorts of foreigners
> that can come and live in Poland without needing any permit will be a jolly
> sight more foreign than the ones who are here under the Treaty of Rome now.
>
> So I think it has quite a bit to do with it, although I didn't realise that I
> had handed over to you the moderation of this group. But I'll answer the
> question anyway.
>
>
hey,
never mind as you can see, we are leaving to holly world and of course who will
take care to our nation, we need to progress our progects, so if all my
patriote will leave. we need some to take care. but any way, grand grand grand
parents of turkish participate in the liberation of our country. so if you
don't beleive me just go north east and then the history will take back to see
how they are, and maybe you need to refresh you mind from some dust.
take it easy.

[marcus_anglikiem]

but any way, grand grand grand
> parents of turkish participate in the liberation of our country. so if you
> don't beleive me just go north east and then the history will take back to
see
> how they are, and maybe you need to refresh you mind from some dust.
> take it easy.

in the liberation of which country ? sorry,i don't follow...

[lmblmb]

usenetposts napisał:

> although I didn't realise that I
> had handed over to you the moderation of this group.

Sorry for not having shown you the proper respect a simple being like myself
should have shown to a superior being like yourself, The Forum Master.

[usenetposts]

lmblmb napisał:

> usenetposts napisał:
>
> > although I didn't realise that I
> > had handed over to you the moderation of this group.
>
> Sorry for not having shown you the proper respect a simple being like myself
> should have shown to a superior being like yourself, The Forum Master.
>

At least you have managed to demonstrate true humility now.

Maybe for an encore you could come round my place and tell me how I'm bringing
my kids up wrong.

[lmblmb]

usenetposts napisał:

> Maybe for an encore you could come round my place and tell me how I'm bringing
> my kids up wrong.

YOU have kids? I'm sorry.

[usenetposts]

lmblmb napisał:

> usenetposts napisał:
>
> > Maybe for an encore you could come round my place and tell me how I'm bri
> nging
> > my kids up wrong.
>
> YOU have kids? I'm sorry.
>

5.

No doubt you would do a whole lot better at fatherhood for my kids than me,
same as you know better than I do what should be on topic round here.

[marcus_anglikiem]

lmblmb napisał:

> usenetposts napisał:
>
> > It'll be one more argument for not letting them in the EU.
>
> What does it have to do with "Foreigners living in Poland"?

because Poland's in Europe! duh! and in this case the Foreigner is European too
(though he might just dispute this?

[babiana]

Topkapi Palace Collection


The last of the cabinets contains a table service offered by the King of Poland,
Stanislas Poniatowski (18th Century) to Abdul Hamid I, augmented by medallions
and by the following words:

«ln gratitude and affection to the Turkish Padishah» : for we must not forget
that the Ottoman Empire was the only state to refuse to countenance the
partition of Poland.

[usenetposts]

babiana napisała:

> Topkapi Palace Collection
>
>
> The last of the cabinets contains a table service offered by the King of
Poland
> ,
> Stanislas Poniatowski (18th Century) to Abdul Hamid I, augmented by medallions
> and by the following words:
>
> «ln gratitude and affection to the Turkish Padishah» : for we must no
> t forget
> that the Ottoman Empire was the only state to refuse to countenance the
> partition of Poland.

Well, great! Happy to hear that. But it really goes to show that the only way
to win Muslims respect is to get tough with them. The Turks loved Poland
because Poland whopped their ass. Islamics love Islam, because Mohammed's
swordsmen whopped their ass. You heard it from B16, and B16 is absolutely right
on the matter.

The moral of the story is that the way to get some respect from the Islamic
world is to get tough with them, not cozy up to them.

[ianek70]

usenetposts napisał:

> Islamics love Islam, because Mohammed's
> swordsmen whopped their ass. You heard it from B16, and B16 is absolutely
right
>
> on the matter.

Of course Islam was spread by the sword.
How was Christianity spread?
Did some cheery blokes with rosy cheeks and acoustic guitars go round the towns
and villages of Europe and South America, saying, "Sorry to bother you, but
here's a leaflet explaining that your entire culture, your gods and everything
you've believed in for thousands of years is just crap. Anyone who'd like to
abandon it all and become a monotheist, get in touch. No pressure."?
No. They whopped their peasant asses, unless a local king or prince could be
persuaded for political reasons to betray his culture and traditional religion.

Benny neglected to mention (or if he did it wasn't reported by the media) that
all the stuff so rightly condemned by the medieval dude he quoted was also
happening at the very same time in Poland and Lithuania, in the name of the
loving Christian God.
Mentioning this would not have provoked the same over-reaction in the Christian
world as in the Muslim one, but any religion is dangerous if it's taken too
seriously. Fortunately, in the secular, ex-Christian world we only have to
worry about being murdered in the name of foreign religions.

A representative of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhoods said, "These remarks did cause
offence, but we must keep things in perspective - most Europeans don't give a
shit what the Pope says anyway."

[usenetposts]

ianek70 napisał:

> usenetposts napisał:
>
> > Islamics love Islam, because Mohammed's
> > swordsmen whopped their ass. You heard it from B16, and B16 is absolutely
>
> right
> >
> > on the matter.
>
> Of course Islam was spread by the sword.
> How was Christianity spread?

Certainly not by violence, because in the history of our faith not one person
has been truly born again that way.

For three centuries, Christians were on the receiving end of persecution. They
were put in the arenas of Rome and fed to lions and all that stuff. Then after
the blood of the martyrs was the seed of the Church, for many years, along came
Constantine and subverts our religion into a political tool for himself, and in
so doing brings that golden age to an end and things start going rapidly
downhill from that point. Of course, there were always those who were true
believers and did their best, but they tended not to be in the echelons, as
politician scum had taken these over.

When the Reformation came we were trying to have dialogue not on the basis of
what the Biblical truth is but the bigwigs if the Church that had not been
cleansed of worldliness since Augustine's politicisation of it was more
interested in defending its position because that's where authority and power
lay.

> Did some cheery blokes with rosy cheeks and acoustic guitars go round the
towns
>
> and villages of Europe and South America, saying, "Sorry to bother you, but
> here's a leaflet explaining that your entire culture, your gods and
everything
> you've believed in for thousands of years is just crap. Anyone who'd like to
> abandon it all and become a monotheist, get in touch. No pressure."?

That is pretty much what happens, these days. And I can't think of many cases
of us getting more forcible than that. Do you see in the news people being
forced at knife point to baptism? NO. But someone in Afghanistan who converted
to Christ recently was sentenced to death and then the lunatic asylum unless he
recanted. Please do not put these two religions in the same bracket.

> No. They whopped their peasant asses, unless a local king or prince could be
> persuaded for political reasons to betray his culture and traditional
religion.
>

You are referring to the building of empire, in which Europeans also misused
the church for political ends.

> Benny neglected to mention (or if he did it wasn't reported by the media)
that
> all the stuff so rightly condemned by the medieval dude he quoted was also
> happening at the very same time in Poland and Lithuania, in the name of the
> loving Christian God.
> Mentioning this would not have provoked the same over-reaction in the
Christian
>
> world as in the Muslim one, but any religion is dangerous if it's taken too
> seriously. Fortunately, in the secular, ex-Christian world we only have to
> worry about being murdered in the name of foreign religions.
>
> A representative of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhoods said, "These remarks did
cause
> offence, but we must keep things in perspective - most Europeans don't give a
> shit what the Pope says anyway."

Only when he speaks the truth. When he does that even I care.

Please note that whereas Christ told people not to fight and put back on the
ear that Peter lopped off, and the Church was on the receiving end for 300
years until a corrupt politician changed that for his own gain, in Islam
Mohammed not only was alive at the time his religion was spread by violence,
not only did he know of the violence, not only did he instruct it, but in the
Koran he even instigates it and glories in it, even involving those of his own
family that didn't accept his psycopath projects and support him financially.
See Sura 111, a charming ditty egging his supporters on to sling his uncle and
aunty on the campfire.

There is no comparison between the Christ of the Bible and the Mohammed of the
Koran. If you think there is, then you show that you haven't looked into it
independently, but just got swept along by these sloppy ideas in the media, and
in silly films like the "Kingdom of Heaven", that try to place Islam and
Christianity in the same bucket.

[babiana]

Suicide killing.
"Hoping to join the European Union, Turkey has tightened the punishment for
attacks on women and girls who have had such experiences. But the violence has
continued, if by different means: parents are trying to spare their sons from
the harsh punishments associated with killing their sisters by pressing the
daughters to take their own lives instead."

articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/how-to-avoid-honor-killing-in-turkey/20060716085509990006?ncid=NWS00010000000001

[brookie]

Please stop your propaganda,Il looks you have a big problem inside your heart,
I believe that our Jesus do beleive in the love and to the other.
what the hell, I have been in Turkey as tourist. it is great nations always
smilling in your face. welcome even you can enter to their Mosques, by the way
I so what we called a tolerant and if you don't beleive me Haja Sophia is one
example.
smille, and spread a love, jesus is not only for us but for all.

Nothing is wrong with my heart, man. And I do believe the Turks have a big
smile on their faces most of the time, so do my Afghan neighbours.
But "after hours", they hate the civilized way of living ( meaning us).
They can go as far as to the social security office to claim another newborn to
get a higher fortnightly payment, but after that...

[szahtut]

> Nothing is wrong with my heart, man. And I do believe the Turks have a big
> smile on their faces most of the time, so do my Afghan neighbours.
> But "after hours", they hate the civilized way of living ( meaning us).
> They can go as far as to the social security office to claim another newborn
to
>
> get a higher fortnightly payment, but after that...
First you should tell them your way of life, then explain them, look guys we
are sorry for what is going in your country, we know that the bourka still
there even our soldier from the civilized worrld are there for freedom and to
stop heroin and tu push out the talibani.
and concerning the social security support,I beleive that the law give them
that not you or other and if they are angry abount your life style it is normal
if you beleive to the freedom, because everyone has right to say this is crap
life, as you do when you are in other; countries you have right to say ohhhhw
it is crapy tradition even they are happy with that; so be happy don't worry,

it could be helpful

[szahtut]

usenetposts napisał:

> It'll be one more argument for not letting them in the EU.

EU? I doubt about what you are telling the people, take looke to this link
maybe will help u:
www.turkeytravelplanner.com/details/WomenTravelers/women_wear.html
far away??

[babiana]

www.ang.pl/cafebabel.html?tab=1&artid=9&left=en&right=pl

[szahtut]

babiana napisała:

> www.ang.pl/cafebabel.html?tab=1&artid=9&left=en&right=pl


www.most.org.pl/zb/gb/5-6/report.htm
Good luck

[babiana]

No data available about women?))
Education is one of the key indicators of the status of women. Women in Poland
generally have more education than men.

www.unece.org/press/pr2002/02stat08e.htm
Illiterate women in Middle East and North Africa

www.prb.org/Template.cfm?Section=PRB&template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=13049

Conscience

[szahtut]

babiana napisała:

> No data available about women?))
> Education is one of the key indicators of the status of women. Women in Poland
> generally have more education than men.
>
> www.unece.org/press/pr2002/02stat08e.htm
> Illiterate women in Middle East and North Africa
>
> www.prb.org/Template.cfm?Section=PRB&template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=13049
>

It is not question to find information, it is matter to share informations and
to be honest with your conscience. and us u know what is good for u is could be
bad for others, like for example SEX here has no borders, or others I believe
it is prawdziwy Sin.
In some countries, to laught during funeral is normal, however to cry is normal
for us, and so on.

to be or not to be

[usenetposts]

szahtut napisał:

> In some countries, to laught during funeral is normal, however to cry is
normal
>
> for us, and so on.

Where is it normal to laugh during funerals?

[babiana]

"The EU reform process has not only been halted," said Cengiz Aktar, director of
the UE research centre at Istambul's Bahcesehir University. "We'are currently
going through a counter-reformation."

www.guardian.co.uk/turkey/story/0,,1795426,00.html

everywhere it looks fuzzy situation

[szahtut]

www.amnesty.org.uk/content.asp?CategoryID=10314

[babiana]

There is also a growing number of honour killings in Great Britain, Germany,
Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Canada etc. Are they commited by the natives?

www.csmonitor.com/2004/0707/p06s02-woeu.html?s=widep

[szahtut]

babiana napisała:

> There is also a growing number of honour killings in Great Britain, Germany,
> Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Canada etc. Are they commited by the natives?
>
> www.csmonitor.com/2004/0707/p06s02-woeu.html?s=widep

OK, I can see your point,
Have you ever thought about thousand of English who are living in other
country. did you ask them if they are terrorized by the locals anywhere. I
doubt you dare to say Yes.
So the question is did those foreigners have their right and as human being nor
as animals. maybe we should look inside the circle not outside.

I believe no one of so called killer have military armada in Iraku or africa
nor in afganistan,
ask your self, what kind of faith those soldier believe, 100% what? christian,
what do yiu expect from the locals to say? freedom, democra?or dogma,

those people who are lving in broad like you now surely they are respecting the
our values, but when someone provoke them, surely they will react based on the
situation.
take time to think, use your mind before giving etiquette.

[babiana]

usenetposts napisał:

> It'll be one more argument for not letting them in the EU.

Some hope that Turkey's ambivalence will be nailed before it gets out of control.
wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/1,55670,3623675.html

[babiana]

CNA: English cardinal, European leaders question Turkey’s place in EU, following
criticism of pope
9/21/2006

Catholic News Agency (www.catholicnewsagency.com)
MUNICH, Germany (CNA) - The president of Bavaria and prelates of Britain’s
Catholic and Anglican churches are among the most recent European leaders to
wonder whether mostly-Islamic Turkey has a place in the European Union,
especially following the country’s reaction to words of Pope Benedict XVI.

Advertisement

Edmund Stoiber, the president of the German region of Bavaria and leader of the
Christian Social Union Party (CSU), the “little sister” of Germany’s ruling
Christian Democratic Union, proposed today that deliberations on Turkey’s
possible acceptance into the European Union be ended. According to Europa Press,
Stoiber said the reaction of many of the ruling political leaders in Turkey to
the words of the pope was reckless and overly critical.

The prime minister of Turkey, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, and Turkish religious
authorities continue to demand that the pope make a more sincere public apology
for the words he spoke in a Sept. 12 discourse at the University of Regensburg,
during his visit to Germany.

A high-ranking Turkish politician even went so far as to compare Benedict XVI to
Hitler or Mussolini, a comparison which exasperated Edmund Stoiber, who thinks
that “Turkey is not now in the condition to enter the European Union.”

“Turkey is not Europe nor does it belong to the continent, because the country
has such great cultural and spiritual differences with western values,” Stoiber
said.

Meanwhile the ranking prelate of the Catholic Church in England and the former
head of the Anglican Communion have asked similar questions.

Cardinal Cormac Murphy O’Connor, the archbishop of Westminster (London), told
the Times of London, “I think the question is for Europe: will the admission of
Turkey to the European Union be something that benefits a proper dialogue or
integration of a very large, predominantly Islamic country in a continent that,
fundamentally, is Christian?”

Cardinal O’Connor said that the majority of English people are Christian who,
regardless of the secular nature of their country, have a deep yearning for God,
based upon their Christian traditions.

A large majority of British Christians belong to the Church of England which
Lord George Carey of Clifton used to head. The former archbishop of Canterbury
added his voice to those questioning Turkey’s place in the EU yesterday, telling
the “Today” program that “Surely a European community has to be more than
economic? It has to have common values and so on."

"I think the jury is still out on Turkey at the moment. I look at its record on
freedom of speech, what it is doing to writers in Turkey who want to speak out,
and some of them are in jail,” Carey continued.

"I think we are on a journey together. I don’t write them out of the action but
there are questions to be pushed."

freedamb

[szahtut]

very interesting, very interesting, when cardinals are taking political
decisions.
that cool, we will see in the near future the Europe of midlle-age, the histiry
is going back, very well!!!

freedom

I hope so

[szahtut]

usenetposts napisał:

> It'll be one more argument for not letting them in the EU.

honey, maybe you should ask them to remove the millitary base and to be
excluded from NATO ALLIENCE; WHAT ABOUT this point?

[babiana]

Last Updated: Friday, 22 September 2006, 14:13 GMT 15:13 UK

Turkey abuse claims 'on the rise'

Human rights are key issue in Turkey's EU bid
An EU delegation on a fact-finding mission to Turkey has reported a "worrying"
increase in allegations of torture and abuse in the country.

The European Parliament's human rights committee members focused mainly on the
Kurdish south-east of the country.

They said they had heard reports of a resurgence of torture, abductions and
beatings by security forces.

Turkey has faced a barrage of criticism from Europe recently, with human rights
a key issue in its bid to join the EU.

'Going backwards'

The delegation of six MEPs met officials and human rights groups in the capital
and in Istanbul.

They also travelled to the south-east, which has seen a serious recent upsurge
in violence between the Turkish military and Kurdish separatists.


These are very, very worrying times in Turkey
Richard Howitt
Delegation member

The group expressed concern about the discrepancies between cases of human
rights abuses recorded by the authorities and those reported to local human
rights groups.

Committee vice-chairman Richard Howitt highlighted the resurgence of political
violence and the "very sad pieces of evidence of increased torture", after years
when the use of torture had been declining.

"These are very, very worrying times in Turkey indeed," he said.

Another member of the delegation, Italian lawmaker Vittorio Agnoletto, said:
"The impression is that the situation is going backwards." A full report on the
delegation's findings is due to be presented to European Parliament in a month,
although they will be discussed in a debate within the next two weeks.

A recent report on Turkey's EU accession bid was highly critical of the pace of
human rights reforms.

British artist Michael Dickenson Mr Dickenson was arrested 10 days ago

The committee's comments came as British officials in Turkey said they were
seeking urgent clarification from the authorities about the continuing detention
of a British artist.

Michael Dickenson was arrested in Istanbul 10 days ago, accused of insulting the
dignity of Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

Mr Dickenson had displayed a poster in which he had superimposed Mr Erdogan's
head onto the body of a dog held on a leash representing the US flag.

[babiana]

I hope Turkey doesn't have to ban the Pope's visit.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5403976.stm