Americans?

[mmerx1]

I assume there are some Americans living in Poland making a pretty good
living. I am American not living in Poland but would really like to live
there. I am an experienced accountant and have taught myself to speak Polish
fluently. Z tym ze mam amerykanski akcent, to w miare dobrze mowie.
Does anyone have contact with someone that might help me out?

Thank you!

[russh]

Why would you really like to live here?

[mmerx1]

I've beent there 3 times, my wife is Polish, i didn't learn polish for no
reason. I just think it would be a great experience for a few years. Plus, with
no kids, it would be a fine time to explore Polonia. Also, the kielbasa tastes
better in Poland.

[usenetposts]

If you are a qualified CPA, you can go ahead and get in contact with these guys

www.horwath.pl
Your first job, if accepted, will be to help us get PCAOB registered!

[mniklas5]

you do not have to have CPA in order to get a job in Poland. More, with CPA you
probably will not get a job in Poland as an accountant because polish accounting
is not in compliance with American GAAP. You may work in Accounts Receivables or
Payables, I don't think in Payroll however or corporate taxes. My advice is to
change a carrer , accounting is undervalued profession in Poland , contrary to US.

[mmerx1]

Change careers? HA!
Acutally I'd do anything in the business world. I'm not really into data entry,
so AR and AP are out. Unless it was a management position.
How can I make enough money in PL as not to have to life in a Blok? I'd prefer
a house on the outskirts of a city. Preferrably away from the bird flu Torun
area.

[the_real_kris]

Cannot see it in bright colours for you.

First of all - accounting rules are different in Poland.
Second - there are plenty of accountants in Poland who offer their services
really cheap - you wouldn't like competing with them for sure.
Third - the only chance for you I can see is getting a position in one of the
two - consulting companies or one of the few big foreign owned companies. There
you could make some money which should be enough to keep you out of a 'blok'.
The downside of it is that competition or a 'ratrace' to get one of these
positions is very fierce.

Frankly speaking - you can rely only on the slight chance of finding another
American in management board which will help you to get a decent job. Maybe you
could also bring a unique value to one of those companies operating in Poland -
but I cannot see what that unique value could be. There is plenty of
proffesionals looking to be hired and even more 'family members', 'nephews' etc.
who also need good jobs


Sad but true.

[russh]

> First of all - accounting rules are different in Poland

For sure, but if you work for PwC, they will offer you sponsership to either the
ACCA or the Polish accounting association..

> Second - there are plenty of accountants in Poland who offer their services
> really cheap - you wouldn't like competing with them for sure.

Are they that cheap? Not in my experience (accountants, not bookeepers that is).

My opinion (based on only a small experience, but also talking to a University
lecturer of accountancy) is that the Polish accountants are quite good fiscally,
but lack management accounting experience. So if our CPA has good managerial
accounting experience, then there are good opportunities I feel.

Remember that USA salaries will not be earned.

I don't share your optimism here...

[the_real_kris]

> For sure, but if you work for PwC, they will offer you sponsership to either th
> e
> ACCA or the Polish accounting association..

---> as I wrote - big four is an option, however having friends who used to work
there in Poland and cooperating with their consultants in EMEA I know that it's
not the same workstyle as in the West. Poland - lots of abuse and working very,
very hard (funny example of that is that several years ago you could easily tell
which three floors of WFC in Warsaw are rented by AA - because the light was
always on till 1 am or later - now it's E&Y as they took them over after
shakeout and very often you can see those lights on as well - also if you come
to WFC on weekends you have to sign in at the reception - majority of people
signin in come from E&Y) - I don't think our american friend wants to compete
with that, besides I don't think he would have gotten a job otherwise as through
some sympatetic american/briton (that is possible however).


> Are they that cheap? Not in my experience (accountants, not bookeepers that is)

----> yes they are cheap and getting cheaper. I base my opinions upon
discussions with a friend who is currently a financial manager of one of
japanies companies present in polish market - he used to be a slave of AA and
after 3 or 4 years broke free, made his certificates and now has been working as
a manager for several years. Working for japanies sucks generally so he is
looking for another opportunity and he's saying financially it's a drama.

> My opinion (based on only a small experience, but also talking to a University
> lecturer of accountancy) is that the Polish accountants are quite good
fiscally, but lack management accounting experience.

----> let's not exagerate - it's not rocket science and there are plenty of
Poles who do manage accounting working not only in Poland but also in the west
or in the corporate structures. Lecturers at the universities are usually
detached from buisness life in Poland - when I think how much of my time they've
wasted educating me with their theories I feel my knive openning in my pocket.

Remember - these are not 'Marriott brigades' times - there is less and less
expats living in Poland and polish economy is not booming in the sense it was in
the early 90ties. I can see it also in WFC - not so many foreigners anymore (if
they come - they usually come for a short period of time).

[russh]

> ---> as I wrote - big four is an option, however having friends who used to
> work
> there in Poland and cooperating with their consultants in EMEA I know that it's
> not the same workstyle as in the West. Poland - lots of abuse and working very,
> very hard (funny example of that is that several years ago you could easily tel
> l
> which three floors of WFC in Warsaw are rented by AA - because the light was
> always on till 1 am or later - now it's E&Y as they took them over after
> shakeout and very often you can see those lights on as well - also if you come
> to WFC on weekends you have to sign in at the reception - majority of people
> signin in come from E&Y) - I don't think our american friend wants to compete
> with that, besides I don't think he would have gotten a job otherwise as throug
> h
> some sympatetic american/briton (that is possible however)

Agreed that most companies overwork their staff. They take advantage due to the
both the general employment situation and the ambitious nature of young people
here. It is also worth noting that in most western societies (maybe France
excepted) quality professional jobs are becoming ever more demanding in erms of
commitment.

> > Are they that cheap? Not in my experience (accountants, not bookeepers th
> at is)
>
> ----> yes they are cheap and getting cheaper. I base my opinions upon
> discussions with a friend who is currently a financial manager of one of
> japanies companies present in polish market - he used to be a slave of AA and
> after 3 or 4 years broke free, made his certificates and now has been working a
> s
> a manager for several years. Working for japanies sucks generally so he is
> looking for another opportunity and he's saying financially it's a drama.

I cannot agree with you. I base my opionion on my talking to many qualified
accountants here in Poland. Of course they are cheap in actual terms if compared
to the USa or the UK, but in relative terms they are not.

> ----> let's not exagerate - it's not rocket science and there are plenty of
> Poles who do manage accounting working not only in Poland but also in the west
> or in the corporate structures. Lecturers at the universities are usually
> detached from buisness life in Poland - when I think how much of my time they'v
> e
> wasted educating me with their theories I feel my knive openning in my pocket.

I've not exagerated. I said that they lack managerial accounting experience.
There is no doubt regarding this. There has not been the level same of
opportunities in Poland to learn and practice what is very much both a
theoretical & experience based discipline. It may not be rocket science, but you
are underrating it I feel.

Also, the university lecturer I talk to is fairly young, has experience in
working in both manufacturing and commercial organisations in the west, and at a
good level. I think you are too easily stereotyping.

I feel that in general Poland is still full of opportunities, but one has to
invest, not just perform (as in be employed). Much of this is due to the
improving quality and experience of Polish professionals (I have said in many
posts that the quality of the younger generation here is very high, and should
be envied by many other countries). Therefore there is less need to import the
skills, and a significant cost saving, as most imported professionals want
homeland salary levels.

I still don't agree

[the_real_kris]

> I cannot agree with you. I base my opionion on my talking to many qualified
> accountants here in Poland. Of course they are cheap in actual terms if compare
> d
> to the USa or the UK, but in relative terms they are not.

----> I thought that we are talking about an american who would like to come to
Poland and maybe become an accountant, right? so 36kUSD per annum is not sth
impressive for him is it? And that's 10k PLN gross per month (not a small salary
in Poland). Even if you double that to 70kUSD per annum it still is not
impressive for our american friend and rather hard to get in Poland. And of
course in relative terms in Poland this is not cheap (because you can find much
cheaper).

> I've not exagerated. I said that they lack managerial accounting experience.
> There is no doubt regarding this. There has not been the level same of
> opportunities in Poland to learn and practice what is very much both a
> theoretical & experience based discipline. It may not be rocket science, but yo
> u
> are underrating it I feel.

----> yes you have exagerated - who has been running companies like Polkomtel,
KGHM, Orlen, Optimus just to nam a few (there are hundreds of others which names
you or me never heard of) - Martians? Do you think those people are not on the
job market here in Poland or they lack experience after 15 years of Poland
capitalistic enterprise? As I said it is not rocket science and there are more
complicated industries where Poles succeed in running/managing/operating.


> Also, the university lecturer I talk to is fairly young, has experience in
> working in both manufacturing and commercial organisations in the west, and at
> a
> good level. I think you are too easily stereotyping.

---> I seriously doubt he is in touch with what's going on in Poland. There is a
saying - those which are not good enough to perform usually get moved to teaching.

> I feel that in general Poland is still full of opportunities, but one has to
> invest, not just perform (as in be employed). Much of this is due to the
> improving quality and experience of Polish professionals (I have said in many
> posts that the quality of the younger generation here is very high, and should
> be envied by many other countries). Therefore there is less need to import the
> skills, and a significant cost saving, as most imported professionals want
> homeland salary levels.

-----> partially agree - if you're willing to invest and you have an
entrepreneurial mentality opportunities are always there. However switching
environment from buisness friendly (american) to buisness hostile (polish) is a
very big challenge and I don't think our friend in question wants to experience
that. Additionally polish market is poor and not very deep - this adds
additional level of difficulty (I am a shareholder in two buisnesses so I know
what I'm talking about). Agree with you on the second part - there is no need to
import skills to Poland as we are even exporting those skills and will be
exporting more and more as the younger generation gets their foot in the market.

[russh]

> ----> I thought that we are talking about an american who would like to com
> e to
> Poland and maybe become an accountant, right? so 36kUSD per annum is not sth
> impressive for him is it? And that's 10k PLN gross per month (not a small salar
> y
> in Poland). Even if you double that to 70kUSD per annum it still is not
> impressive for our american friend and rather hard to get in Poland. And of
> course in relative terms in Poland this is not cheap (because you can find much
> cheaper)

As said before, its all relative. If he wants to live in Poland with US
salaries, for sure he will find it difficult. If, as you state, he can earn $36k
pa, then he's got a good life in Poland.

> ----> yes you have exagerated - who has been running companies like Polkomt
> el,
> KGHM, Orlen, Optimus just to nam a few (there are hundreds of others which name
> s
> you or me never heard of) - Martians? Do you think those people are not on the
> job market here in Poland or they lack experience after 15 years of Poland
> capitalistic enterprise? As I said it is not rocket science and there are more
> complicated industries where Poles succeed in running/managing/operating.

15 years is nothing to change mentalities & gain experience with new mentalities
& work practices.. I stick by what I said before, including that the newer
generation is better, and is learning fast.

> ---> I seriously doubt he is in touch with what's going on in Poland. There
> is a
> saying - those which are not good enough to perform usually get moved to teachi
> ng.

You are talking without knowledge of the person. Stereotyping it is called, and
leads to many errors in judgement. Again, I stick by what I said previously.

> -----> partially agree - if you're willing to invest and you have an
> entrepreneurial mentality opportunities are always there. However switching
> environment from buisness friendly (american) to buisness hostile (polish) is a
> very big challenge and I don't think our friend in question wants to experience
> that. Additionally polish market is poor and not very deep - this adds
> additional level of difficulty (I am a shareholder in two buisnesses so I know
> what I'm talking about). Agree with you on the second part - there is no need t
> o
> import skills to Poland as we are even exporting those skills and will be
> exporting more and more as the younger generation gets their foot in the market

We agree at least on this. No doubt there is a less business friendly
environment, but this can be countered by more experience (assuming he has). The
CPA qualification is a good one, and generally leads to good quality experience.

The youngsters still have a need for more good quality international experience,
and the clever ones are getting it. I have a great regard for them, and wish
that the younger generations of many other countries were as good, although I
feel that there is a tendency for a generation (maybe 2) lag from Poland to the
other western societies, and that probably the following generations will have
the same problems (spoilt etc.).

regarding salaries

[the_real_kris]

there is a possibility to earn US salaries - but he could do that only when
signing a contract with a US company which would sent him to Poland or hired him
to work in Poland (talking about my experience - I'm making 'western money').
The companies which are established here tend to abuse employees and offer much
less as they have experience in the market and know that Poles will work for
pennies - it is changing slowly but still a lot of work for us to do.

One more thing - before you move here take into cosideration that many things in
Poland (i.e. cars, household goods or electronics) are much more expensive then
in US because of overtaxation.

[usenetposts]

russh napisał:

> > First of all - accounting rules are different in Poland
>
> For sure, but if you work for PwC, they will offer you sponsership to either
th
> e
> ACCA or the Polish accounting association..
>
> > Second - there are plenty of accountants in Poland who offer their servic
> es
> > really cheap - you wouldn't like competing with them for sure.
>
> Are they that cheap? Not in my experience (accountants, not bookeepers that
is)
> .
>
> My opinion (based on only a small experience, but also talking to a University
> lecturer of accountancy) is that the Polish accountants are quite good
fiscally
> ,
> but lack management accounting experience. So if our CPA has good managerial
> accounting experience, then there are good opportunities I feel.
>
> Remember that USA salaries will not be earned.

At last someone in this thread is saying something more realistic. But when you
say "US salaries will not be earned", don't forget three things:

1) There are niche markets within accountancy where the right person can make
good money. Works for me.

2) The American salary from what I know is not a fixed feast. I think that
professionals in New York are more highly paid than professionals in rural
Alabama. In Poland the costs vary from New York style costs from some things to
Hick Country bargain prices for other things.

A person whose great love is real estate could find that they can get the same
estate on a lower salary here than they would be able to in the US.

3) An important part of why we don't get so well paid in hand as they do is the
tax differential. An employee can cost his company the same amount gross plus
ZUS as an American in America, and a well paid person will see far less of that
here. Next year's new suggested tax rates should go quite some way to alleviate
that. It will be like receiving an extra month's salary over the course of the
year for better paid people. Bear in mind also that we are paid to work with 26
days paid leave, whereas they are paid to work with 14 days paid leave, per
annum.

[hardenfelt]

David wrote:
Next year's new suggested tax rates should go quite some way to alleviate
>
> that. It will be like receiving an extra month's salary over the course of
the
> year for better paid people.

I also have dreams!

Maybe some day you will realize that Messrs Kaczyńscy are socialists.

[usenetposts]

hardenfelt napisał:

> David wrote:
> Next year's new suggested tax rates should go quite some way to alleviate
> >
> > that. It will be like receiving an extra month's salary over the course o
> f
> the
> > year for better paid people.
>
> I also have dreams!
>
> Maybe some day you will realize that Messrs Kaczyńscy are socialists.

They are not. They are capitalists in socialist dress. Tusk was the other way
round.

[the_real_kris]

you've really gone far with this opinion.

Well - ok - it is your opinion but look around in Warsaw and maybe you will be
able to notice any output of their efforts.

I see several unfinished enterprises and feel huge number of holes in the
streets killing my back.

[russh]

And the car suspension (I've gone through two sets of shock absorbers in two years).

Totally agreed,

[russh]

I don't see that they are socialists. More like power freaks that will do
anything that will earn them a point or two extra in the ratings (like many
other polititians). In short, short of principles.

Exactly as I said

[the_real_kris]

Maybe he will be able to bring a unique value to a company (your niche) and then
he might get good money - what that unique value is I don't know.

I think that this niche might be big enough for you or him but not
big/attractive enough for polish accountants to look at it (because otherwise
they would have get certified and used the opportunity to crowd your niche).
That's what happened in telecomms in Poland - it was 'Marriott brigades' who
started polish GSM operators - now you can hardly find any expat consultants
working there and additionally I personally know many, many polish guys who work
on everyday basis on projects throughout EMEA. I also see jobs being moved from
west to Poland.

Your last paragraph about salaries - I agree - as I wrote earlier on - you will
be taxed more and the goods in stores will cost you more than in US.

[usenetposts]

the_real_kris napisał:

> Cannot see it in bright colours for you.
>
> First of all - accounting rules are different in Poland.

But this guy would become a US GAAP specialist. There is no shortage of US and
Israeli businesses which need that.


> Second - there are plenty of accountants in Poland who offer their services
> really cheap - you wouldn't like competing with them for sure.

He wouldn't. He would have his niche market.
How many PCAOB registered entities do you think there are in this country?

> Third - the only chance for you I can see is getting a position in one of the
> two - consulting companies or one of the few big foreign owned companies.
There
> you could make some money which should be enough to keep you out of a 'blok'.
> The downside of it is that competition or a 'ratrace' to get one of these
> positions is very fierce.
>

Not at all, there is also the medium tier. It consisits of a good five or six
international accounting firms beyond the Big Four. There is Krzysztof Zorde's
BDO, there is Oliver Degand's Mazars, there is Joe Smoczynski's company Moore
Stephens, there is Andrej Kinast's Grant Thorton, there is our Firm, Horwath
JBC and several others I could mention, each serving a share of American and
Israeli busineses. It is easy to get a try out, and after being put through his
paces for a few months either it's back to square one, or if you're any good
you're in.


> Frankly speaking - you can rely only on the slight chance of finding another
> American in management board which will help you to get a decent job. Maybe
you
> could also bring a unique value to one of those companies operating in
Poland -
> but I cannot see what that unique value could be. There is plenty of
> proffesionals looking to be hired and even more 'family members', 'nephews'
etc
> .
> who also need good jobs
>

And many people have gone to the States to learn how to work and when they come
back their skills will be in demand.

This guy would be ahead of the game.

The accounting profession has stopped shrinking already and there are good
opportunities for specialists with their skills backed up by proper
qualifications. Casual workers in this field, the army of semi-qualified lack-
lustre auditors who cannot think, the people with whack skills for whom
accountancy was only ever a stepping stone to something more suited to their
ADHD - these people will always be poorly paid in our profession, and rightly
so.

> Sad but true.

Not sad, and not true.

[usenetposts]

mmerx1 napisał:

> Change careers? HA!
> Acutally I'd do anything in the business world. I'm not really into data
entry,
>
> so AR and AP are out. Unless it was a management position.
> How can I make enough money in PL as not to have to life in a Blok? I'd
prefer
> a house on the outskirts of a city. Preferrably away from the bird flu Torun
> area.

You crack me up.

The bird flu first appeared in the Torun area. On Saturday it was already in
Bydgoszsz, and also in the area near Szczecin. Shortly the migratory birds are
due back in this country. In one month's time there will not be a single city
in this country, or rural area, that is entirely free from bird flu.

Count on it.

[usenetposts]

mniklas5 napisał:

> you do not have to have CPA in order to get a job in Poland. More, with CPA
you
> probably will not get a job in Poland as an accountant because polish
accountin
> g
> is not in compliance with American GAAP. You may work in Accounts Receivables
o
> r
> Payables, I don't think in Payroll however or corporate taxes. My advice is to
> change a carrer , accounting is undervalued profession in Poland , contrary
to
> US.

I didn't say you needed one, but I personally will not think of employing an
American accountant here who is not qualified.

Not unless they are going to go through the Polish KIBR qualification route
&/or the ACCA at the same labour rate as everyone else who does that.

[minimus]

Yes, there are plenty of Americans living very nicely in Poland.

If you can communicate easily in Polish this is a big advantage. We like
Americans (generally) and we adore those who speak Polish. Sounds silly but
this is actually very helpful.

For starters you could just try to contact some employment agencies (here
called head hunters - lol). IIRC Bigram has a lot of jobs in banking for
example. Alternatively you can try with some companies directly.

Good luck.

[ejmarkow]

Hmmm...this is right up my alley! I highly recommend, start your own business.
I'm into Agrotourism here in my village. For sure, it's going to work out fine.
As for accounting, I don't miss it. I love to wake up in the morning, split a
few logs for firewood, take a walk in my forest, inhale clean air and if the
breeze is blowing against me, inhaling some of my neighbors cow manure.
Later in the evening, chat with my neighbors, lust after a few of their
daughters, and share some good Zywiec beers, and sing with them, "Hej Gorale,
nie witam sie". I'm also far from any city, and don't regret it. Live life,
enjoy life, because, it's here for the taking. Yes, I'm born in the USA.

Regards,

Eugene
Siemiechów, Poland
"Where the Devil Says Dobranoc"

[asiaasia1]

You may end up as a ESL teacher (business English), which is not so bad really ....
Good luck .

[hardenfelt]

Just for the fun of it I tried to go to:
www.wp.pl/
Then I pressed "ogłoszenia" and afterwards "pracy" and typed "accountant" in
the search field. I had 40 adverts from the last 2 days - a good part of them
in English.

I know a lot of European companies are outsourcing their accountancy division
to Poland. Poznan, Wrocław and Kraków are the main centres (suppose people are
cheaper there) But then again if you want to live in a house then they are much
cheaper there than in Warszawa.

Some of these outsourcing companies seam rather desperate for labour. I had 5
unsolicited e-mails within the last 6 months asking me for help with finding
Danish speakers for accountancy.

[the_real_kris]

Yes, but have you actually called them and verified if they are still available
as well as how much they pay? I suspect sth around 24k PLN annualy.

Good night and good luck with such salary.

[hardenfelt]

the_real_kris wrote:

> Yes, but have you actually called them and verified if they are still
available
> as well as how much they pay? I suspect sth around 24k PLN annualy.


Well – my girlfriend is not an accountant. She finished geography 2 years ago
and did a few weekend courses paid by her present employer. She’s just received
the prestigious job title of “młodszy księgowy“ and makes 3.500 zl. monthly
which is maybe not a fortune but after all it’s better than the 24.000 yearly
you talked about. She has a first certificate in English, average looks and
intelligence and as far as I know she doesn’t do blowjobs on her boss. Maybe
she’s just lucky.

Even if many Poles speak very good English they rarely get close to a native
speaker level and if we talk about people that stone-old that they acquired
some professional qualifications then language abilities are generally somewhat
fluffy. And there is a demand in Poland for qualified people with language
qualifications. You can’t just go and pick them. Now – Poland is a strange
country when we talk about salaries. They can be extremely low but the
differences are much bigger than in any EU-15 country and if you are the right
man for the right job at the right time then the level doesn’t differ much from
Western Europe.

[the_real_kris]

One question - do you live in Warsaw?

Another - I realize that the disproportion in salaries is sometimes huge - first
hand (I usually make approx. 8 - 10 times more than avarage Pole, sometimes -
depending on a month - its more than that). But in case of accountants jobhunt
out of Warsaw I think 3 - 4 k PLN monthly is top of what you can expect -
there's just an oversupply of guys with this type of education (also - this jobs
are unavailable to our friend seeking to come to Poland).

As I wrote above - my collegue is a financial manager in a jap company and he is
willing to quit and move back to Poznan. There are job offers in the market but
they are offering 6 - 7 k PLN monthly (with his 8 years of experience). This is
ridiculos.

[usenetposts]

the_real_kris napisał:

> One question - do you live in Warsaw?
>
> Another - I realize that the disproportion in salaries is sometimes huge -
firs
> t
> hand (I usually make approx. 8 - 10 times more than avarage Pole, sometimes -
> depending on a month - its more than that). But in case of accountants jobhunt
> out of Warsaw I think 3 - 4 k PLN monthly is top of what you can expect -
> there's just an oversupply of guys with this type of education (also - this
job
> s
> are unavailable to our friend seeking to come to Poland).

I think you are not living in the same country as I am.

I need people for the Katowice office, and we are going to spend at least 75%
per head on those salaries as in the Capital.

>
> As I wrote above - my collegue is a financial manager in a jap company and he
i
> s
> willing to quit and move back to Poznan. There are job offers in the market
but
> they are offering 6 - 7 k PLN monthly (with his 8 years of experience). This
is
> ridiculos.
>

I know another Japanese company (please don't say "jap" on this Forum) out in
the countryside not far from Poznan trying tio get hold of a financial
controller with English for 8000 per month and not being able. half this guys
experience would do.

Let him send his CV in, if he's a serious contender.

[the_real_kris]

> I think you are not living in the same country as I am.

----> Yes - exactly - as opposite to you I am well established here and have
contacts in more places than just my corporation - you see - I am local and I do
know what's going on.

> I know another Japanese company (please don't say "jap" on this Forum) out in
> the countryside not far from Poznan trying tio get hold of a financial
> controller with English for 8000 per month and not being able. half this guys
> experience would do.
>
> Let him send his CV in, if he's a serious contender.

----> why not jap - it's shorter and easier plus there is no emotional load when
I say it (after all Poles have not killed Japanese neither have they've dropped
A-bombs on Japanese cities).

Now to the point. Today I will give you mine opinion on that - tomorrow I will
call my friend and verify it with him. OK - here is my opinion:

You're kidding right? Do you think my friend is stupid?

First of all he will never ever work for a jap company again because those guys
do not understand how to behave or even communicate in Europe (Anyway - you're
probably speaking about Bridgestone which sucks great, great deal as I heard).

Second he is a financial director so he will not go back to controlling (he was
doing that 8 years ago when working at AA).

Third - are you talking dollars or euros? Because for 8 k PLN monthly he will
not spend 300 hours per month at work (that's the number of hours you normally
do in jap companies). Your fantastic offer brings something about 26 PLN per
hour which is lees than twice as much as you can make at McDonalds in USA. What
the hell are you talking about?

Man - get your act together - first you sound like you know the industry - then
you go and come up with such a proposal.

[russh]

Man, I think that you think that others think things that you do not think.
Maybe it's time that you began thinking like others think that you ought to
think, or maybe you think that the others ought to think like you think.

I think man, in the end, that you've lost touch with common reality with your 10
* the normal wage salary.

[the_real_kris]

Maybe you're right. I try not to get out of touch with the rest of the society
although it is quite hard. I meet friends from school times, from university;
talk to people I meet in everyday life, etc.

On the other hand - I do think differently then vast majority and that is the
cornerstone of my success. And I'm learning to think even more differently - to
broaden this succcess.

[russh]

Remember that everyone has his own reality, and that success is 100% relative
and personal.

A wise old man once told me that a person who is happy is truly successful.
Material success is not necessary for some people, but is paramount for others.

[usenetposts]

hardenfelt napisał:

> Well – my girlfriend is not an accountant. She finished geography 2 years
> ago
> and did a few weekend courses paid by her present employer. She’s just re
> ceived
> the prestigious job title of “młodszy księgowy“ and makes 3.500 zl.
> monthly
> which is maybe not a fortune but after all it’s better than the 24.000 ye
> arly
> you talked about. She has a first certificate in English, average looks and
> intelligence and as far as I know she doesn’t do blowjobs on her boss. Ma
> ybe
> she’s just lucky.

Nope, she's on the market.

>
> Even if many Poles speak very good English they rarely get close to a native
> speaker level and if we talk about people that stone-old that they acquired
> some professional qualifications then language abilities are generally
somewhat
>
> fluffy. And there is a demand in Poland for qualified people with language
> qualifications. You can’t just go and pick them. Now – Poland is a
> strange
> country when we talk about salaries. They can be extremely low but the
> differences are much bigger than in any EU-15 country and if you are the
right
> man for the right job at the right time then the level doesn’t differ muc
> h from
> Western Europe.

Exactly.