sick!

[nasza_maggie]

wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/1,53600,3381761.html
If anyone wants to translate the article then please do so.

All I'm saying is that they've go a nerve.....
Unless this is a joke...but who would be so stupid....

Paedophiles having their own political party....what next??

[varsovian]

I think there is a definite case to be made here for surgical removal of the
testes.

[usenetposts]

Wjen I read things like that, it makes me happy we've got strict catholics in
power in this country.

Poland actually ought to invade Holland for that, and give it back once matters
are put right.

[nasza_maggie]

I wouldn't call them strict Catholics.

And I doubt the Polish army would surpass anything Holland's army has in stock..

[varsovian]

And there'd be lots of misunderstandings seeing as Polish soldiers would be
giving interviews in English and saying "I am from Polland" (with that famously
short "O").

[usenetposts]

varsovian napisał:

> And there'd be lots of misunderstandings seeing as Polish soldiers would be
> giving interviews in English and saying "I am from Polland" (with that
famously
>
> short "O").

You raise embarrassing memories of a time in Bayswater.

I was in Bayswater doing a short accounting course during my training. I went
to a sandwich shop for food during the lunch breaks. I noted that the serving
people could barely speak English, and asked them where they were from, and got
the reply with the inevitable short o in it, and could have sworn they said
Holland. Well, I greeted them in Dutch every time I went in the shop after
that, and ordered my sandwich in Dutch and thanked them in Dutch and siad
goodbye in Dutch, etc etc. They were just nodding and saying nothing. Then
towards the end of my time there, I asked them in Dutch what part of Holland
they came from. No answer. I asked again. In the end I felt quite irritated
with them because I thought they were doing everything they could not to let me
practice my Dutch. I thought that was very pusillanimous of them. That was the
word I used in my head - I had got that word out of "Look Back in Anger". Only
when one turned and addressed the other in Polish - which I did not know well
at that time - did I realise the mistake.

They must have thought I was even odder than I thought they were!

[usenetposts]

Well, that's only because their military spend is three times larger than
Poland's is. It doesn't make them, like, big or clever, and it certainly
doesn't entitle them to be having a bunch of nonces parading about the
political stage.

[varsovian]

Sorry - I've lost the plot - the Dutch splash out on arms, Polish politicians
are a bunch of shirtlifters a la Morrissey 1984?

[usenetposts]

varsovian napisał:

> Sorry - I've lost the plot - the Dutch splash out on arms, Polish politicians
> are a bunch of shirtlifters a la Morrissey 1984?

The Dutch splash out on arms, but it doesn't give them the right to allow a
political party for pedophiles.

[nasza_maggie]

I only ever liked one Morrisey song, is that ok?

[usenetposts]

nasza_maggie napisała:

> I only ever liked one Morrisey song, is that ok?

I don't know whether I've even heard any or not.

Morrissey

[ianek70]

usenetposts napisał:

> I don't know whether I've even heard any or not.

You must have.
Last week, for reasons we won't go into, Polish radio resounded with
exclusively nice songs, and songs about love (in the absence of any songs about
the papacy).
A lot of Bob Marley, but then the average mohair beret has a limited
understanding of the principles of Rastafarianism.
And Trójka played Morrissey's "Every Day is Like Sunday" several times,
obviously recognising the word "Sunday" in the title, but not bothering to
analyse the rest of this paen to depression.
"Every daaaay is like Sunday
Every day is silent and grey..."
It made me laugh every time. Mozza would be so disappointed...

[ianek70]

usenetposts napisał:

> The Dutch splash out on arms, but it doesn't give them the right to allow a
> political party for pedophiles.

Poland also wastes a lot of money on weaponry, but that's just a question of
priorities - Warsaw cares more about licking the Pentagon's butt and increasing
profits for US arms manufacturers than it does about the Polish education
system or health service, and has never hidden this fact. Hats off to the
bastards' honesty.

Something nobody has noticed?

[lmblmb]

> Wjen I read things like that, it makes me happy we've got strict catholics in
> power in this country.

The age of consent in this country is lower than in the "sick" Holland.

[marcus_anglikiem]

in which country? is it not still 18 in Poland? and in Holland it's 16.

Was it ever?

[lmblmb]

marcus_anglikiem napisał:

> in which country? is it not still 18 in Poland?

Was it ever? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Age_of_Consent.png

> and in Holland it's 16.

And in Poland it's 15. Look at Spain BTW, it's 12!

[marcus_anglikiem]

IT'S 15! SH**, You're right! Damn i wish someone had told me that when i was
18! I can't believe they lied to me! what did they think, that i was a bad
person or something?! and now i'm 25 and almost married and it's too late for
that kind of thing... My new motto: MUST CHECK FACTS. BELIEVE NO-ONE.

[usenetposts]

I can't believe in Spain it's thirteen.

Surely there should be a single European standard for this.

[marcus_anglikiem]

i don't know. i can't imagine it'd be at all easy for all the nations of Europe
to come to a united opinion on the matter.

[hardenfelt]

marcus_anglikiem napisał:

> IT'S 15! SH**, You're right! Damn i wish someone had told me that when i was
> 18! I can't believe they lied to me!

Real men don't care about this sort of silly rules!

[marcus_anglikiem]

those in prison... or one the sex offenders register... or who lost their
jobs/careers... do.

Sad, sick scum

[ianek70]

nasza_maggie napisała:

> All I'm saying is that they've go a nerve.....
> Unless this is a joke...but who would be so stupid....
>
> Paedophiles having their own political party....what next??

They're sick, misguided people who presumably think that having an open, honest
debate will help their cause.
Open, honest debate is always a positive thing, but these sickos (unless
they're extremely stupid sickos) will stay in the shadows to avoid being
lynched.

It's a difficult and very emotive topic.
I would assume that the majority of paedos are ashamed of their tendencies, and
would accept help if it was available. But the understandable hysteria around
the subject means that there is no help, and these sick people are rejected and
develop various, more dangerous for society, complexes and grudges.
Of course, this is easy to say, and as a father I know that if someone touched
my daughter, no matter how sick or ashamed he was, I would kill him.

[usenetposts]

ianek70 napisał:


> Of course, this is easy to say, and as a father I know that if someone
touched
> my daughter, no matter how sick or ashamed he was, I would kill him.

Hear, hear.

[marcus_anglikiem]

hear, hear once more. but wouldn't it be typical of this sick society we live
in today that if someone actually did kill a paedo for interfering with his/her
child then THEY would probably be locked up whilst the paedoscum would probably
walk free... i despair...

[marcus_anglikiem]

this week in the uk (i many years ago gave up any hope for this sick nation) a
guy attacked a woman and two mean with a knife, the three ended up in hospital
(one paricularly seriously) and the courts (damn them) let the guy walk! so
typical of this sick diseased nation where according to a recent survey, on
various major issues(health, education, economy etc. ) 30-40% of those surveyed
thought that none of the political parties could be trusted... finally people
are waking up!

[usenetposts]

marcus_anglikiem napisał:

> this week in the uk (i many years ago gave up any hope for this sick nation)
a
> guy attacked a woman and two mean with a knife, the three ended up in
hospital
> (one paricularly seriously) and the courts (damn them) let the guy walk! so
> typical of this sick diseased nation where according to a recent survey, on
> various major issues(health, education, economy etc. ) 30-40% of those
surveyed
>
> thought that none of the political parties could be trusted... finally people
> are waking up!

You know what, politicians don't like that happening, but the lawyers do, as
it's how they make their money. A crap legal system keeps them all laughing all
the way to the bank, and they run the show in the UK and in the US too.

We need for the elected powers in other nations to learn a lesson from this and
keep the legal profession under due scrutiny and accountable to the public
interest, and it needs to be taken in hand in the UK and US, and that can only
been done, I'm afraid, by a strong arm in government.

We cannot be so stupid as to let it go on for ever, but where to start cleaning
it up, and how to get everyone, including the media which are so critical, to
support the clean up?

People have been conditioned to believe that the legal system being the most
powerful institution that everyone fears in the end, politicians and
journalists alike, and they themselves behave with impunity, is the key to our
civil liberties, but that's a crock of shit - it is precisely the lack of
control over the legal profession - the way they are accountable to no-one but
the Law Society which does nothing but keep the in crowd in power - that has
caused this awful mess.

I would chuck all criminal lawyers and judges and barristers out and put new
ones in. But how to do it?

[russh]

Its also true, at least traditionally, that the legal profession is the most
represented in parliament!

[usenetposts]

russh napisał:

> Its also true, at least traditionally, that the legal profession is the most
> represented in parliament!

Yes indeed. They make damn sure they are, so as to protect their hegemony.

Anyone opposing an application to lead the local party by a lawyer is likely to
find himself on the wrong end of a frivolous suite that will soon make them
change their ways, and so the political parties have more lawyers than any
other. It applies to left and right wing parties, unlike other professions,
such as accountants, which gravitate towards one or other side - in the case of
accountants a tendency towards the conservative party is readily visible, for
instance. This way they make sure that come rain or shine they have the lions
share of political clout and are part of the machinery that stymies the work of
even the most idealist conviction politician, if it doesn't match the business
interests of the legal mafia. So they have the whole country snookered, and a
similar situation exists in numerous other countries, especially around the
anglophone world.

And unless they are stopped, they will carry on until there is no place left
that is fit to live in.

Where they control, if you are a hard-working, talented person, you must live
in fear that someone will sue you when you get rich, as the legal profession
drum up as many such actions as they can in order to make money. It's then not
worth bettering yourself, as what the taxman doesn't get the lawyer will. But
if you want to be a parasite and a criminal, then the legal system is on your
side. If they can keep your case going for as long as possible they can get the
biggest fee, either funded from your crimes (they don't care if their fees are
paid out of someone's stolen life savings) or stolen from the taxpayer under
false pretences of "giving people a fair trial" via the legal aid system.

They are in it for themselves. Their maxim seems to be "what of it if we add to
teh misery of the world, as long as in a miserable world we are the richest,
and hold the most power?".

That's why I didn't need to change the header along with the change in subject
matter in this thread.

[ianek70]

One of the good things about the jury system is that while it's technically
illegal to perform amateur surgery on someone with a broken bottle, you won't
get done for reconstructing a sicko.

[usenetposts]

marcus_anglikiem napisał:

> hear, hear once more. but wouldn't it be typical of this sick society we live
> in today that if someone actually did kill a paedo for interfering with
his/her
>
> child then THEY would probably be locked up whilst the paedoscum would
probably
>
> walk free... i despair...

Indeed they would, and that's becasue the legal mafia that run the country
don't like it when anyone else gets on their patch and starts showing what real
justice is all about.

Politicians despair as much as you or I do, but until the judges and lawyers
are put in their place neither a left wing nor a right wing government will be
able to change anything.

I hereby grant the democratically elected representatives of the peoples of the
world the power to take precedence over unelected legal mafias who reconstruct
and reinterpret laws pretending to be in the public interest but which always
end up with them getting the maximum chargeable hours. I hereby declare that
for a duly elected government to put a stop to that is not a limitation of our
human rights, it is an expresion of them. And I don't care what legal
mechanisms the lawyers have put in place to stop elected governments from doing
what the people clearly want. They are not democratic, they make no sense, and
their time is up.

Mene mene tekel upharsin. And I mean that.

[russh]

Agreed, but it is also important that;

1. Laws are clear - there are too many open to too much interpretation. This is
the professions true money spinner (badly constructed laws).
2. Governments and institutions remain within the law - it is often too easy for
them to believe they are above the law, and the legal system is one of only two
control methods that I am aware of (the other being the ballot box).

[russh]

Seconded.

There should be no way that these truly sick people should be let on the
streets. Sorry, but they are walking time bombs.

[marcus_anglikiem]

i think what we need is a government that comes down hard on criminals and
wipes them out.

[nasza_maggie]

Starting with themselves.

[portulaco]

Few years ago the Dutch gay Pim Fortuyn was shot to death and later according to a report from the Dutch secret services accused of having sexual intercourse with Moroccan minors few years before.

I wonder if the lider of this half baked horse [censored] political organization will not have the same fate...

Children must be protected from this scum, everyone has right to express his opinion but as we say in Portuguese language there is "Liberdade" (Freedom) and Libertinagem (abuse of freedom causing the caos and the total disrespect for the law and order), that's what I think about those [censored]... Libertinagem Holandesa.

[ja_karola]

Precious time was wasted by the Cdn gvt arguing as to whether the names of
convicted pedophiles should be listed online so as to forewarn the public once
these abusers get out of jail. The "no" camp argued that this will violate
their human rights! I wonder if that's how they'd feel if their own child was
victimized.
Instead of trying to find a viable solution or more effective punishments (e.g.
chemical castration), nowadays our MPs are concerned with the following:

In Canada federal government’s imminent plans to raise the age of sexual
consent to 16 from the current 14 will include exceptions to allow young
teenagers to have sex with others who are no more than five years older. The
exemptions, confirmed by a government official, are designed to prevent
criminalization of sex between young lovers, while focusing on protecting 14-
and 15-year-olds from older predators, particularly on the Internet. The
proposed law, to be introduced in the next couple of weeks, would permit 14-
year-olds to have sex with 19-year-olds and 15-year-olds with 20-year-
olds. "Equality for Gays and Lesbians Everywhere" says the government is
discriminating against gay men by refusing to change the legal age for anal
sex, which is 18.

[chris-joe]

I don’t like this one. This digging up of some obscure and completely marginal
Dutch band of weirdoes. Not in the Poland’s press at the time when and where
so many attempts are being made to link the gaylib movement to pedophilia . And
where the Netherlands has been twisted to epitomize an imaginary land of –lo and
behold!- “liberal excess”. And where the widely rejected argument of “slippery
slope” has found a seemingly safe refuge.

Maybe it’s just me.
But have you stumbled upon this item when perusing any non-Polish paper?

[marcus_anglikiem]

so if a topic doesn't suit your agenda (?) it's not worth discussing?

[chris-joe]

But, marcus dearest, please do discuss the topic to you heart's desire! Have I
suggested in any way you shouldn't? Or that it isn't worth discussing?

I merely voiced my surprise that this obscure group made such headlines in the
Polish press at the very time it did.

[usenetposts]

chris-joe napisał:

> I don’t like this one. This digging up of some obscure and completely ma
> rginal
> Dutch band of weirdoes. Not in the Poland’s press at the time when and
> where
> so many attempts are being made to link the gaylib movement to pedophilia . An
> d
> where the Netherlands has been twisted to epitomize an imaginary land of –
> ;lo and
> behold!- “liberal excess”. And where the widely rejected argument
> of “slippery
> slope” has found a seemingly safe refuge.
>
> Maybe it’s just me.
> But have you stumbled upon this item when perusing any non-Polish paper?

Hmmmn. Not only is there the total absence of any meaningful "gays against
paedophiles" lobby, but also we see instances like this where you, as a gay man
who is out and in a relationship with a consenting same-sex adult, is for no
apparent reason sticking up for them.

I just wonder why that is, perhaps you could elucidate?

[chris-joe]

And why should there be any specifically "gay" lobby against pedophiles? Is
there such a "straight" lobby?

And where exactly have you found me "sticking up for them"?

Please, elucidate, dave...

[hardenfelt]

chris-joe napisał:

> And why should there be any specifically "gay" lobby against pedophiles? Is
> there such a "straight" lobby?
>
> And where exactly have you found me "sticking up for them"?
>
> Please, elucidate, dave...


It is quite logical. You didn’t write that all paedophiles should be castrated.
This lack in your post means that you “stick up” for the paedophiles.

I suppose we can now agree that you are a firm supporter of paedophiles. I
think we can conclude that this is because you are paedophile yourself. And
this means that you probably rape children after having lured them away from
kindergarten with a candyfloss.

The above is more less the quality of the “public debate” concerning
paedophilia – which is why I warmly welcome the new Dutch political party.
Let’s at least get the definitions straight. Let us assume that David
(theoretically) would get a hard-on if he sits on a bench in the park
contemplating a 12-years old girl with heavy make-up, direct view to her small
but firm tits and a charming, sensual smile. Will this make David (or me if I’m
the one who sits there with a hard-on) a paedophile?

The point is – you cannot put a firm limit on this sort of things. It should of
course be illegal for an old man to have a sexual relationship with a 12-years
old girl, but this doesn’t mean that I would personally condemn such a
relationship from a moral point of view. A lot of 12-years old are sexually
develop and are actively seeking experiences – sometimes with older partners.

In my point of view paedophilia is when a grown up seek a relationship with a
person whose genitalia are not yet developed. In the public debate I though
more and more often observe the viewpoint that a paedophile is someone having a
relationship with someone under the age of consent (i.e. from 12 – 18 years
depending on the country).

Anyway it is impossible to discuss such matters because just the slightest hint
that you are not in favour of the hardest possible treatment of these mad
people will raise an outcry. The only right answer when you hear the word
paedophile is: “kill them” or maybe if you are soft: “castrate them”.

[usenetposts]

hardenfelt napisał:

> chris-joe napisał:
>
> > And why should there be any specifically "gay" lobby against pedophiles?
> Is
> > there such a "straight" lobby?
> >
> > And where exactly have you found me "sticking up for them"?
> >
> > Please, elucidate, dave...
>
>
> It is quite logical. You didn’t write that all paedophiles should be cast
> rated.
> This lack in your post means that you “stick up” for the paedophile
> s.
>
> I suppose we can now agree that you are a firm supporter of paedophiles. I
> think we can conclude that this is because you are paedophile yourself. And
> this means that you probably rape children after having lured them away from
> kindergarten with a candyfloss.
>

I didn't say that he did do such things, but I am simply wondering why he would
be critical of the problem of paedophilia being discussed.

> The above is more less the quality of the “public debate” concernin
> g
> paedophilia – which is why I warmly welcome the new Dutch political party
> .
> Let’s at least get the definitions straight. Let us assume that David
> (theoretically) would get a hard-on if he sits on a bench in the park
> contemplating a 12-years old girl with heavy make-up, direct view to her
small
> but firm tits and a charming, sensual smile. Will this make David (or me if
I&#
> 8217;m
> the one who sits there with a hard-on) a paedophile?

If this 12 year old is demonstrating post-pubertal female signals, then a
straight man may well be aroused by it, by I would have hoped that most of us
in those cases we would be in control of ourselves enough to let the person
finish her childhood in peace without responding to it.


> The point is – you cannot put a firm limit on this sort of things. It sho
> uld of
> course be illegal for an old man to have a sexual relationship with a 12-
years
> old girl, but this doesn’t mean that I would personally condemn such a
> relationship from a moral point of view. A lot of 12-years old are sexually
> develop and are actively seeking experiences – sometimes with older partn
> ers.

It may also be that in Bible times such women were eligible for marriage, and
therefore sex, but I do think that it is good that the age of sexual consent in
any civilised state should coincide with the end of the age of compulsory
education. If someone is considered a child with a view to their compulsory
school attendance, they also ought to be considered one in the area of their
chastity.

Taxpayers are paying for kids to receive the most they can out of an
educational system by a certain age, and kids ought to be concentrating on
getting the most out of the state's investment in them. There's time enough to
make these decisions when they go out to work or go on to tertiary education at
college.

> In my point of view paedophilia is when a grown up seek a relationship with a
> person whose genitalia are not yet developed.

Yes, to a degree, but that is a sexual perversion. There are also those who
look for children despite the fact that they would rather have developed
genitalia, but they cannot deal with a grown up woman and go for children as
they can manipulate them more easily. In either case, children need to be
protected from these people.


> In the public debate I though
> more and more often observe the viewpoint that a paedophile is someone having
a
>
> relationship with someone under the age of consent (i.e. from 12 – 18 yea
> rs
> depending on the country).
>
> Anyway it is impossible to discuss such matters because just the slightest
hint
>
> that you are not in favour of the hardest possible treatment of these mad
> people will raise an outcry. The only right answer when you hear the word
> paedophile is: “kill them” or maybe if you are soft: “castrat
> e them”.

They should only be killed themselves if they have actually been guilty of an
act that is liable to have changed the victim's life.

People who come forward and state their need should be put on a programme. They
ought in an ideal world to be given a secluded place to live and rovbots that
can fulfil their requirements without upsetting or involving a living person.

[usenetposts]

chris-joe napisał:

> And why should there be any specifically "gay" lobby against pedophiles? Is
> there such a "straight" lobby?

Straight men don't interfere with little boys.

They are looking for something that little boys don't have.

Or little girls for that matter.

>
> And where exactly have you found me "sticking up for them"?
>
> Please, elucidate, dave...

Well what was the point of your response, then, if not that?

[chris-joe]

> Straight men don't interfere with little boys.
>
> They are looking for something that little boys don't have.
>
> Or little girls for that matter.

Well then, if the good n' intelligent uncle Dave understands pedophilia as "gay
men's disease", why should we be surprised at Giertych and the likes' lunatic
ravings?

> Well what was the point of your response, then, if not that?

Do reread my original post, Dave, then come back.
Should you still stick to the same conclusion, hardenefelt's rendition of your
logical thinking will be proven right. Sadly.

[russh]

Hi Chris. Sorry that you have been attacked - it's not deserved in any way, and
to see you 'accused' of supporting paedophiles (from your post) is absolutely
crazy, and any suggestion that it (paedophilia) is a 'gay' disease is equally
so. I am not sure of the stats, but I would guess that there are more 'older'
men interfering with girls than with boys.

To make a few points:

1. It was not only in the Polish press, but also in the UK press -
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5038682.stm
2. Re Hardenfelt's post - I cannot agree with him, in the sense that a 'child'
stops being a child when their genitalia have developed. There is also the need
for mental development. This is why there is an (arbitrary, inevitably) age of
consent, and why I, for one, would not to see it reduced.

With regards to any 'older' person using the excuse of 'she seemed older than',
I would say bollocks, common sense and decency should have taken precedence over
your cock!

[ja_karola]

Dutch court ok's "pedophile" political party.

www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/07/17/are-you-kidding-dutch-court-oks-pedophile-political-party/

[marcus_anglikiem]

because of "freedom" of speech... hmm... so the court would also allow, say, a
'The Party of Compulsory Chemical Castration For All Paedophiles' ?

[ja_karola]

Good idea Marcus, however it requires their consent and only a tiny minority
actually opt for chemical castration. I propose impaling! At least that would
scare the hell out of them... granted it's a slightly violent if not outright
primitive death sentence, but something tells me that having a sharp object
shoved up their anus would act like an effective deterrence.

One (and only) good news is that the Dutch pedophile party still consists of the
three founding members. They were unsuccessful in recruiting new membership and
let's hope it stays that way. Its president was kicked out of the university
where he was studying. I expect the others are just as ostracised by the society.

[mari88]

"the Dutch pedophile party still consists of the
three founding members."

Now, our mothers know for which men they have to warn us.. But, serious, I'm
very ashamed that a party like this is allowed in my country. Well, of course
they don't have any power and they will not get it!! (they cannot participate
in elections untill they 've received 30.000 signatures, I can't believe ANY
person will sign, your name is immediately recognised in the media).

Here in Holland, this subject didn't receive as much attention as in other
countries, I think that's because it isn't worth it, and lets hope we will hear
nothing again from this three men. (as a matter of fact: everybody knows where
they live, the founder lives on a campground, and I can tell you this
campground was not very happy with it.. (at first: no more guests, than: this
person has been removed).

[babiana]

In USA "pedophiles view themselves as the vanguard of a nascent movement seeking
legalization of child pornography and the loosening of age-of-consent laws. They
portray themselves as battling for children's rights to engage in sex with
aduts". This is really sick!
www.latimes.com/news/columnists/la-oe-brooks25aug25,1,6173265.column?coll=la-news-columns