Help save the Rospudy Valley!

[ejmarkow]

"Ratujmy Dolinę Rospudy: Ponad 100 tys. podpisów!"

Help save the Rospudy Valley near Białystok! We must prevent the authorities
from constructing a large expressway overpass through this beautiful nature
reserve. Send in your protest now! Mine is in.

wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/0,74178,3491896.html

[marimax]

You can not stop progress.
We need more highways, codos and shoping malls

[usenetposts]

marimax napisał:

> You can not stop progress.
> We need more highways, codos and shoping malls

That may be so, but we don't need them THERE.

I also signed that petition.

[guzlik]

Hi there,

I also signed the petition but do understand the views of the inhabitants of
Augustow who are concerned about the sheer extent of heavy goods vehicles
passing through and the likelihood of serious delays should a more appropriate
route be chosen.

However I feel this issue does highlight some of the differences between those
folks living in Poland A and those living in Poland B, in particular as it
relates to rural issues.

I grew up in a thriving rural village in England where the majority of
inhabitants farmed their own smallholdings. From the 1960s onwards social
advances and rural policies led to increasing rural deracination and
practically all the young people left to live and work in the cities. The
majority never to return. The village school has closed, the post office and
shops have the closed and the pub exists purely to serve the tourists and
business lunch trade. The village has become a high class commuter village.

In many ways this village is an example of what has happened to the english
countryside. It has become the reserve of the rich with very few family farmers
deriving their income from farming only. My own view is that the countryside
has never looked so beautiful but at the same time, in my view, it has lost it
soul. There's a certain sterility about the countryside these days. This
derives from the lack of natural anarchy caused by too many chemicals, the lack
of noise, children and families, animals and wild nature. The countryside has
become the preserve of the rich. It's prettier but it's dead.

In Poland, on the contrary, the countryside is predominantly the land of the
poor, and these people wish to catch up on the perceived benefits of an
affluent society. The Polish countryside is indeed stunningly pretty and
unique, but for many, particularly the young, it represents everything that
they wish to escape from. The brutality, the lack of opportunities, the tyrrany
of the priest and soltys, the sometimes grinding poverty and the sheer
isolation from centres of activity.

I for one hope that they manage to preserve those essential human things which
have meant that to me the Polish countryside is absolutely unique on an
European level. I have seen the British way and please believe me it does not
work. I could write volumes on the absolutely greed and stupidity shown by the
British agri-business elites. Mostly funded of course by the British and
European taxpayer. Please don't copy this rotten example.

Ah well that off my chest! Please allow me to introduce myself. I'm Adrian, of
Polish descent, living in London and actively planning on moving to Poland
within the next eighteen months.

Hopefully, of course, to a "siedlisko" where I can grow a few vegetables,
apples and pears and escape from the reality of an increasingly consumer
obssessed society. To be perfectly honest I cannot afford to go back to my old
life in Britain, I have been priced out and am no longer considered a "suitable
person" for the new British countryside. I honestly don't view my future life
through rose tinted spectacles and know that this life will be remarkably tough
but the alternative is too grim to contemplate!

Returning to the merits of the Via Baltica and the Rospudy, the route should be
changed to avoid the valley, but ultimately the sucess of future rural
conservation in Poland will be in how we manage to balance the aspirations of
those living in a countryside with the ever increasing need to preserve that
which is most valuable to us. Strangely enough I am optimistic that in Poland
this necessary balance can be achieved.


Best wishes,


Adrian

[ejmarkow]

Hi Adrian,

Very descriptive post. Can you please expand on and explain in more detail as
to what you meant when you stated, "...the tyrrany of the (village) priest..."?
It seems like a strong sentence, or was it meant to be satire? Please provide
some examples on precisely what actions consist of tyranny on behalf of the
priest? It could form the basis for yet another interesting debate on this
forum.

I live in a village as well, quite far (about 32 km) from the nearest city
having a population exceeding 100,000 inhabitants. Both priests in this village
seem quite respectable and never displayed any actions considered to be that of
a tyrant, or even remotely similar to one.

Many of the younger residents in this village and myself have good contact and
relations. Often, I ask them, "If you had the choice to live in the city, or
this village, which would you prefer?" Nine of ten of the respondents chose to
live in the village. In fact, I believe most Poles today live in rural areas in
Poland.

The majority of residents here (in this village) who currently work abroad
intend to return and live in Poland again. I recently had the pleasure to meet
one such woman that works in Vienna, Austria. Her plans are to eventually
return to this village. Could this be a new trend? It would make a valuable
Opinion Poll on Gazeta Wyborcza for the sake of demographics.

If the authorities ever had plans to construct an expressway going through my
quiet picturesque valley, I refrain from saying exactly what I would do. It
would be controversial though.

[minimus]

> Very descriptive post. Can you please expand on and explain in more detail as
> to what you meant when you stated, "...the tyrrany of the (village)
priest..."?
>
> It seems like a strong sentence, or was it meant to be satire? Please provide
> some examples on precisely what actions consist of tyranny on behalf of the
> priest? It could form the basis for yet another interesting debate on this
> forum.

oh noooooooo...

Please, please don't start that thing again, or at least limit it to that one
thread. Otherwise it will spread like a disease until one day anything we want
to talk about will end up in a flame war.

[minimus]

oh, and I signed the petition as well.

[ja_karola]

>Can you please expand on and explain in more detail as
>to what you meant when you stated, "...the tyrrany of the (village) priest..."?

Perhaps it was a newborn Don Camillo who found his devil in a small English village?

[guzlik]

Hi ejmarkow,

I hope I haven't upset anyone n my second post!

My views on the village priest are not meant to be too critical of the Catholic
Church but rather a reflection on how many youngsters view the countryside and
the role of the village priest.

I have many friends and family living in the former PGR-owski lands of
Zachodnie Pomorskie where rural abandonment is a fact of life. The youngsters I
meet are very cynical about what they view as the new "szlachta". Like yourself
most of the village priests I have met have been remarkably intelligent and
understanding of the social changes facing the villages. However, my concern is
about the perception of the young people in these villages. Believe me there is
a consistent, clear, and historical anti-clerical movement in many villages.
Unfortunately this is also linked to the common Polish "social hypocrisy" where
people give you the information they think you want to recieve rather than what
they really think.

In this respect I can't give you specific examples about this "tyranny" but
would ask you to reflect upon your own experience. The church may well be full
on Sunday but this is no reflection on the "quality" or "strength" of belief on
display. Many young people feel that they have no alternative but to attend
mass and pay lip service to the semons of the priest. The tyrrany i'm talikng
about is that view of many young people that the priest does not understand the
feelings of the disadvantaged and the unemployed but rather sees their role as
maintaining the status quo. I'm sorry but I have to be honest about this - if
my children did not "revolt" against their upbringing (i.e me) I would be
seriously concerned!

I am surprised about your comments that most of the young people in our village
do not wish to leave. The same is true of Zach Pomorskie and Dolny Slask. Most
of the young kids dont wan't to leave BUT... they do leave. I can no longer
count the number of young people from a rural background I meet in England who
tell me that they did not wish to leave. Of course my parents also wanted to
return after a period earning real money!

In regards to the percentage of people living in rural areas I think its clear
that since the seventies the majority of Poles do live in an urban environment.
I would love to see a movement back to the villages but at the moment I can
only see a continuing drain from the villages and the gradual resettlement by
wealthy city folk who contribute nothing to the local community. This would
follow the same pattern as most Western countries.

As to your valley. If anyone should even consider a highway through it please
let me know. We may well disagree on certain things but i would give you my
wholehearted support. I've also got lots of experience in these things and I'm
sure we could arrange a few surprises!

All the best,


Adrian

[bluteau]

I also signed the petition, as well some family and friends

[sobieski010]

I quite often have opposite opinions to Eugene's. But here I can only agree -
this area should be saved. Have also signed the petition.

[ja_karola]

This petition has been in circulation for a little while now. I signed it too.
Good idea to put it up here.