Love, Marriage and Homosexuals

[Gość: tomboyyz]

Should gay marriages be legel thorough out the world? The church didn't
recongize marriages between hetrosexuals until the 12th century. Back then
marriage wasn't because two people loved each other it was more for dowry and
business patnerships. The mergeing of family lines to become bigger, better and
more well off.
Today people in these same countries get married out of love. Homosexuals can
love each other, so why can't they get married as well. There are gay couple
that have known each other for years, and yet straight couple can met and in a
matter of hours or a few days (depending on the conntry) hetrosexual couple can
be married. I didn't ask to be lesbian, but I am, and it's not fair that I can
not marry the person whom I love.

[Gość: Piotr M]

Of course that gay and lesbians should be allowed to get married just as they
are in the Netherlands. No matter what anybody says there's nothing wrong with
that. Two people who love each other may need and want a legal recognition and
protection from their government(not talking about any church) as long as the
recognition benefits them. If other (i.e. heterosexuals) couples are granted
those benefits and as long as the benefits are denied gays and lesbians it's a
DISCRIMINATION.
The fear that those marriages would destroy morality and the society are simply
stupid. Look at the countries who were "brave" to risk it. They are doing quite
well, arent't they?

[Gość: Lechita]

Gość portalu: Piotr M napisał(a):

> Of course that gay and lesbians should be allowed to get married just as they
> are in the Netherlands. No matter what anybody says there's nothing wrong with
> that. Two people who love each other may need and want a legal recognition and
>
> protection from their government(not talking about any church) as long as the
> recognition benefits them. If other (i.e. heterosexuals) couples are granted
> those benefits and as long as the benefits are denied gays and lesbians it's a
> DISCRIMINATION.
> The fear that those marriages would destroy morality and the society are simply
>
> stupid. Look at the countries who were "brave" to risk it. They are doing quite
>
> well, arent't they?


Well how? Financially? Without any doubt, Holland is a very rich country. But are
they well off in other areas? Killing old people because they are no longer
useful, child poronography, drugs. Holland is not a model of morality.

Homosexuals do not deserve to be allowed marriage. Marriage in its definition is
a union between two people, a man and a woman. Homosexuality does not fit this
definition. But on another level, permitting homosexuals to marry is going to get
us on a very slippery slope. Take a look at what has been happening since the
1960s, when homosexuality has been more and more tolerated. Pedophilia and child
poronography have sprung up like mushrooms after rain. Where is there most of
this garbage? In countries with very liberal views towards homosexuality and
other deviant behaviours. Now, Holland is permitting adoption of children by
homosexuals. This is just another step towards tolerance of pedophilia. THis is
not acceptable. Homosexuality is a deviant lifestyle. It has been given too much
freedom.

No one said you wanted to be a lesbian, but you must accept the fact that you
are, and certain things are off limits to you. Marriage is such an area. Be
greatful you are even tolerated.

[Gość: PIotr]

Oh yeah, let's blame it all on homosexuals. How original!
The Jews have been already blamed for all that and so were people of color.
Time for gays and lesbians to be a reason for all the BAD things including
Polish miserable existence and crimes commited by heterosexuals. We should also
be blamed for communism, "Big Brother" and it's popularity and Britney Spears,
right?
Pedophilia and child pornography are caused by homosexuals? Probably yes, by
homosexual pedophiles. But also by HETEROSEXUAL ones. And it should be
prosecuted.
I was writing about civil marriages, not religious ones. You quoted a religious
definition of marriage that also appears for some reason in Polish law.
I do not care about opinion of various church leaders as long as it does not
influence the law of the country I am a citizen of. As a citizen I am granted
the same rights as any other citizen. Not fullfilling those rights by
governments is breaking them and it's a pure discrimination.
You have a right to your opinions and beliefs even if they are wrong and
hateful but as long as this country uses my tax money I will demand my rights.

[Gość: Lechita]

Gość portalu: PIotr napisał(a):

> Oh yeah, let's blame it all on homosexuals. How original!
> The Jews have been already blamed for all that and so were people of color.
> Time for gays and lesbians to be a reason for all the BAD things including
> Polish miserable existence and crimes commited by heterosexuals.

Did I blame anything on homosexuals?

> We should also
>
> be blamed for communism, "Big Brother" and it's popularity and Britney Spears,
> right?

Yes.

> Pedophilia and child pornography are caused by homosexuals? Probably yes, by
> homosexual pedophiles. But also by HETEROSEXUAL ones. And it should be
> prosecuted.

Yes it should, unfortunately society is heading towards a Soddom and Gomorrah
situation where every deveiancy is tolerated.

> I was writing about civil marriages, not religious ones. You quoted a religious
>
> definition of marriage that also appears for some reason in Polish law.

It is actually also the law where you live. I believe that the USA, judging from
your ip. You should know that homosexual marriages there are also not permitted.
Holland is an exception.


> I do not care about opinion of various church leaders as long as it does not
> influence the law of the country I am a citizen of. As a citizen I am granted
> the same rights as any other citizen.

Thats ofcourse not true. We are not all granted the same rights. Women and men
have many different rights in the area of childcare. Women are granted maternity
leave, not men. There are other examples.

Not fullfilling those rights by
> governments is breaking them and it's a pure discrimination.

Thats just stupid. You dont have a RIGHT to marry. There is no such thing.
Marriage is a contract, whose terms you dont meet, and as such, it is a contract
that you are not allowed to enter.

> You have a right to your opinions and beliefs even if they are wrong and
> hateful but as long as this country uses my tax money I will demand my rights.

You can demand wings, green skin, 3 metres height and x-ray vision, it just wont
happen.

[Gość: Lechita]

Gość portalu: Lechita napisał(a):

> Thats just stupid. You dont have a RIGHT to marry. There is no such thing.
> Marriage is a contract, whose terms you dont meet, and as such, it is a contrac
> t
> that you are not allowed to enter.

I just wish to expand a little on this idea of a contract. No one enters a
contract when one is aware that the other party has no intention of adhering to
the terms of said contract. With homosexuals' tendency for multiple partners, the
most basic, underlying idea of marriage is nullified. Homosexuals cannot be
faithful to each other because monogamy for them is biologically impossible. A
second idea of marriage, the production of off-spring is also not possible with
homosexuals. More accurately male homosexuals. As such, the idea of gay marriages
is not only sick, its fundamentally absurd. What then is the reason you want
marriage? For the benefits (tax reasons, etc)? Unacceptable.

Unfaithful hetrosexuals also

[Gość: tomboyyz]

>Thats just stupid. You dont have a RIGHT to marry. There is no such thing.
Marriage is a contract, whose terms you dont meet, and as such, it is a contract
that you are not allowed to enter.

>I just wish to expand a little on this idea of a contract. No one enters a
contract when one is aware that the other party has no intention of adhering to
the terms of said contract. With homosexuals' tendency for multiple partners, the
most basic, underlying idea of marriage is nullified. Homosexuals cannot be
faithful to each other because monogamy for them is biologically impossible. A
second idea of marriage, the production of off-spring is also not possible with
homosexuals. More accurately male homosexuals. As such, the idea of gay marriages
>is not only sick, its fundamentally absurd. What then is the reason you want
>marriage? For the benefits (tax reasons, etc)? Unacceptable.

Why not. That is what marriages started out as to begin with. As contacts for
business and finical reason. Today marriage is about love. And queers can love.
In all the time I have known myself to be a lesbian I have never had more then
one partner at a time but I believe relationships should be monogamos. My current
relationship is of three years and I know other raltionships that are longer. As
far as monogamy goes, hetrosexuals don't have any better a track record. People
are people, and if a person like multiply sexuals partners it doesn't matter if
they are gay, straight, black, white, asian, or a dog. After all, humans are
animals too.
Homosexuals can be just as faithful to a partner as any hetrosexual person. It
depends upon the individual and their culture and upbringing. There are countries
that believe in multiply spouses.
I would not enter too a contact with my partner if I though she would not be
faithful to me. But hetros get divorced all the time over unfaithful partners,
what's the difference?

[Gość: Piotr M.]

You're sweet with all those hateful words dressed up so nicely. You are pretty
pathetic, you know?
Yes, you blamed pedophilia and child pornography on us. I actually prefer older
men, daddy type to be exact so you cannot blame it on me.
It's always better to blame other people for our pathetic lives. Easy and there
are so many thing to choose from.

There is at least domestic partnership law on state level and if you've not heard
yet, Vermont has so called "civic unions". Also Belgium just passed gay marriage
law, France,Canada, Germany and Scandinavian countries have "partnership" laws as
well. Hungary too, Chech is working on it. The USA is a VERY conservative country
but it's changing. In California being openly gay is non-issue at all. Most
cities have nondiscrimination policy and ddomestic partnership laws. It's
changing slowly but there is no other way. The same is going to happen in Poland
and other more or less fundamentalistic countries. The racial segragation also
took decades to disappear. With people like you eventually gone we'll get the
right to be equal.

I am not talking about women and men just people who are equal in their right to
happiness and fullfilment. Although as far as I know even in Poland either parent
can take a leave after child birth. If I am wrong, that's should change.
But there are no restrictions for people getting married and having children even
if one of them is 30 years older, 50% more stupid or diffrent race etc. Not even
id they do that for money or any other reason. You can even get married just to
be on TV. I have been with the same man for 4 years, we've created home together,
we share everything, we LOVE each other. And yet, our relationship does not
exists legally.
If he got sick, I would not even have a right to visit him in the hospital
because I am not his "family"!!!
Yes, marriage is a contract and if in present version the law excludes gay people
from entering that contract that's discrimination. The same when it excluded
blacks or Jews from anything. We had those laws not a long time ago. They are
GONE.
You may not like it at all but we'll get the right to marry. Sooner or later.

[Gość: Lechita]

Gość portalu: Piotr M. napisał(a):

>
> You're sweet with all those hateful words dressed up so nicely. You are pretty
> pathetic, you know?

Am I sweet or pathetic? This lack of logic shows your weakness.

> Yes, you blamed pedophilia and child pornography on us. I actually prefer older
>
> men, daddy type to be exact so you cannot blame it on me.

You obviously did not read what I said. I said the TOLERANCE for homosexuality is
the same tolerance which will lead to acceptance of pedophilia. Pedrasty and
pedophilia, are not however very different. You said you like older men, called
the daddies. Does this mean that you see your relatonship with them as a father-
son relationship? A hint of incest perhaps? And those older men, your "daddies"
they like younger men, right? So is this a camouflaged pedophile relationship?
Seems like it to me.

> It's always better to blame other people for our pathetic lives. Easy and there
>
> are so many thing to choose from.
>

I dont blame my life on you. I do make it a point to stay away from your types
(liberals not homosexuals).

> There is at least domestic partnership law on state level and if you've not hea
> rd
> yet, Vermont has so called "civic unions". Also Belgium just passed gay marria
> ge
> law, France,Canada, Germany and Scandinavian countries have "partnership" laws
> as
> well. Hungary too, Chech is working on it. The USA is a VERY conservative count
> ry
> but it's changing. In California being openly gay is non-issue at all.

Ofcourse not. California has several gay ghettos. There is a reason why LA is
called the city of sin.

Most
> cities have nondiscrimination policy and ddomestic partnership laws.

No need to stutter. Calm down girlie.

It's
> changing slowly but there is no other way. The same is going to happen in Polan
> d
> and other more or less fundamentalistic countries. The racial segragation also
> took decades to disappear.

Unfortunately you are probbaly right. Rome also fell to the same decadence and
depravity now dressed up as liberalism and tolerance in the west.

With people like you eventually gone we'll get the
> right to be equal.
>

Eventually gone? You will exterminate us?

> I am not talking about women and men just people who are equal in their right t
> o
> happiness and fullfilment. Although as far as I know even in Poland either pare
> nt
> can take a leave after child birth. If I am wrong, that's should change.
> But there are no restrictions for people getting married and having children ev
> en
> if one of them is 30 years older, 50% more stupid or diffrent race etc. Not eve
> n
> id they do that for money or any other reason. You can even get married just to
>
> be on TV. I have been with the same man for 4 years,

4 years is not so long. But to a homosexual perhaps it is a very long time. Your
ability to have multiple partners is quite well known.

we've created home togethe
> r,
> we share everything, we LOVE each other.

Do not confuse love with lust. Love can be parental, as a child loves a parent
and vice versa. It can be between a man and a woman. Not between 2 men. This is
incoceivable.

And yet, our relationship does not
> exists legally.

And so it should remain.

> If he got sick, I would not even have a right to visit him in the hospital
> because I am not his "family"!!!

You are not his family. Correct. As such, certain privilidges dont apply to you.

> Yes, marriage is a contract and if in present version the law excludes gay peop
> le
> from entering that contract that's discrimination.

Not at all. You are free to marry a woman if you so desire. Dogs also have sexual
relationships yet we dont recognize their right to be married.

The same when it excluded
> blacks or Jews from anything. We had those laws not a long time ago. They are
> GONE.
> You may not like it at all but we'll get the right to marry. Sooner or later.
>
>
>
You may wish to believe this, but it will not be so.

No words left

[Gość: Piotr M]

You know, it's hopeless but just want to answer your last notes:
1. "Pederasty and pedophilia, are not however very different."
Your wrong and you do not realize it or your simply ignorant/idiot.
2. Daddy/son relationship? If you want to call it that, so be it. For me it's
more partneship, friendship, intimacy, love, trust, commitment. Things you
obviously do not know.
3. "Girlie"? Hello! That's so faggy!. Are you sure you are not one of us?
Suppressed emotions may lead to selfhatred and it's proven that most people who
hate gays are really closeted homosexuals. Your problem, not mine, though.
4. Exterminate you? Not even, waste of my time and energy. You're doing it
yourself very nicely. We'll wait.
5. Again you obviously do not have any idea what family and love is. Time to
discover that.
6. The end.

Thank you friend Piotr M

[Gość: tomboyyz]

It is good to hear a friendly voice in this forum. :) I hope to come visit Warsaw
again soon, even if only for a 4-day weekend before I go home to the US. Are you
in Warsaw yourself?

[Gość: Piotr M.]

No, I am not.
I live in California now.

[Gość: tomboyyz]

That's cool. In 8 months I will be back in the US with my partner. We'll be in
the NYC area.

Child weddings & Mother Earth

[Gość: tomboyyz]

Woman used to get marriage at the age their periods started flowing, which BTW
was happening only a couple hundred years ago. Today in that is unheard of in
Western Culture. A girl could be considered an adult woman at age of 9 and
married off to some man, usually much older then her to satisfy a deal between
two families. Now we humans are more 'civilizied' and don't marry till we are
in our early 20's or later even. Everything changes with opionions of the
majority. Homosexuals may never be the majority in this world, but Mother Earth
has made us to help stop the hetrosexuals from over running the earth with its
offspring!

[Gość: Lechita]

Gość portalu: tomboyyz napisał(a):

> Woman used to get marriage at the age their periods started flowing, which BTW
> was happening only a couple hundred years ago. Today in that is unheard of in
> Western Culture. A girl could be considered an adult woman at age of 9 and
> married off to some man, usually much older then her to satisfy a deal between
> two families. Now we humans are more 'civilizied' and don't marry till we are
> in our early 20's or later even. Everything changes with opionions of the
> majority. Homosexuals may never be the majority in this world, but Mother Earth
>
> has made us to help stop the hetrosexuals from over running the earth with its
> offspring!

Mother Earth also made murderers, disease etc to help control the population. As
for everything changing with the will of the majority, I believe thats called mob-
rule, a very dangerous thing. Sometimes the will of the majority must be
controlled.

Control and overthrown

[Gość: tomboyyz]

> Mother Earth also made murderers, disease etc to help control the population. A
> s for everything changing with the will of the majority, I believe thats called
mob- rule, a very dangerous thing. Sometimes the will of the majority must be
> controlled.

Yes nature did, and yes the will of the mojority must sometimes be controlled.
Disease like AIDS to help weed out the unfaithful perhaps? As for Mobs, they have
sometimes overthrown kings and goverments before.

[Gość: Ursyn]

I'm against the right of homosexual people to marriage. In my opinion marriage
it's a relation between man and woman, nothing else. Why not let triples to
live together? Maybe let's make harems legal?
I think gay couples can have right to live together but they can't be
marriages. And they can't have children.

Childern and harems

[Gość: tomboyyz]

Gość portalu: Ursyn napisał(a):

> I'm against the right of homosexual people to marriage. In my opinion marriage
> it's a relation between man and woman, nothing else. Why not let triples to
> live together? Maybe let's make harems legal?
> I think gay couples can have right to live together but they can't be
> marriages. And they can't have children.

You are right, We can't have childern. Personally I don't want childern, maybe if
I did I'd be with a man instead of another woman. But even if you don't call it
marriage we should still be able to get a legal contact that the goverments of
the world recongize so our partners have the power to make certain desions. Also
if some of us enter into bad relationships of abuse they abused person should be
able to get help from police like anyone person can without the police turning
their backs and letting another human be beat or abused.
As for harems, why not, it is legal in some countries today.

[Gość: Lechita]

Gość portalu: tomboyyz napisał(a):

> Gość portalu: Ursyn napisał(a):
>
> > I'm against the right of homosexual people to marriage. In my opinion marr
> iage
> > it's a relation between man and woman, nothing else. Why not let triples t
> o
> > live together? Maybe let's make harems legal?
> > I think gay couples can have right to live together but they can't be
> > marriages. And they can't have children.
>
> You are right, We can't have childern. Personally I don't want childern, maybe
> if
> I did I'd be with a man instead of another woman.

Exactly why you shouldnt be married.

> But even if you don't call it
>
> marriage we should still be able to get a legal contact that the goverments of
> the world recongize so our partners have the power to make certain desions.

And why is that? Only family members and spouses are allowed to make certian
decisions and u need to be a spouse or a family member to make them. Since
marriage is for heterosexuals, you dont fit the definition.

Als
> o
> if some of us enter into bad relationships of abuse they abused person should b
> e
> able to get help from police like anyone person can without the police turning
> their backs and letting another human be beat or abused.
> As for harems, why not, it is legal in some countries today.

More depravity.