Cytochrom P450

[dziubolek2]

Czy ktoś z Was słyszał coś więcej na temat cytochromu P450 w kontekście
boreliozy? Czytałam gdzieś, że borelia ma słaby mechanizm obronny P450 i
jesli się go osłabi, zahamuje to tym samym osłabi się wzrost i rozmnazanie
borelii. na tej teorii oparta jest metoda leczenia niemieckigo doktora (nie
pamiętam teraz nazwiska, sam był chory na borelię)- antybiotyki + dłuzszy
czas diflucan, który ma własnie taki mechanizm działania.
Może dlatego też lekarze zalecaja antydepresanty z grupy SSRI, które wykazuja
podobne osłabianie P450 i dlatego powinny łagodząco działać na borelię, a nie
dlatego, że uwazają nas za psychicznych?
Czy ktos może jeszcze posiada wiedzę na ten temat? Co może jeszcze hamować
P450 i jak to się ma do ogólnej kondycji organizmu, bo przecież enzym tego
cytochromu bierze udział w metabolixmie wielu leków, pożywienia itd?

[wroteknowynick]

Ja też slyszalem od Dr Andy Wright`a z Wlk Brytanii ze Selektywne Inhibitory
Wychwytu Serotoniny wstrzymuja p450 u borrelii zabijając ją i lekarze
psychiatrzy mówią "patrzcie pacjent ma depresje bo czuje sie lepiej na SSRI",
Ale tak naprawde moze czuc sie lepiej bo SSRI dzialaja jak antybiotyki.

[michal056]

Ja po 5 miesiacach brania Coaxilu, leku antydepresyjnego, całkowicie pozbyłem
się stanów zwiazanych z uczuciem wszelkich oznak depresji ,zmęczenia
itp.Niestety nie pomaga to na stawy cholerka.Moze wiec warto wypróbować metode
prof W.Schardta www.neuroborreliose.net/ dodać tylko debecyline stawy
zdrowe.

[wroteknowynick]

to ciekawe, ja próbowałem różnych ssri ale tylko pogarszały sprawę albo nic nie
robiły

[wroteknowynick]

trochę wikipedii
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytochrom
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytochrom_P450

[dziubolek2]

Może muszę spróbować. brałam do tej pory Trittico od psychiatry, ale to w
kontekście niespania zupełnego, ale bardzo mi się w głowie kręciło po nim. Może
w takim razie spróbuję z jakimś SSRI, tym bardziej, że ja mam objawy
neurologiczne.
Leczenie dr. Schardta może i jest logiczne (on sam był chory), bo czytałam
różne wypowiedzi na forach niemieckich i istnieją pacjenci, którym on pomaga.
tym bardziej, że tym Fluconazolem chyba sobie za bardzo nie mozna zaszkodzić.
Jesli bym teraz miała zacząć kurację antybiotykową, to myślę, że z pewnością
namówiła bym jakiegoś lekarza na kontynuację potem fluconazolem.

[freshka]

Sa SSRI i SSRI...
Niektore powoduja objawy neurologiczne same z siebie. Osoby z borelioza tez
narzekaja na skutki uboczne tych lekow, wiec to nie jest takie proste.

[calafior6]

> borelii. na tej teorii oparta jest metoda leczenia niemieckigo doktora (nie
> pamiętam teraz nazwiska, sam był chory na borelię)- antybiotyki + dłuzszy
> czas diflucan, który ma własnie taki mechanizm działania.

ImmuneSupport.com Treatment & Research Information



A New Approach to Chronic Lyme Disease
ImmuneSupport.com

05-11-2005 By Jill Neimark
In May of this year I sat down at the beautiful Essex House on Central Park
South, with a German physician specializing in internal medicine, Fritz
Schardt. Dr. Schardt, who is associated with the University of Wurzburg in
Germany, published an interesting pilot study in the European Journal of
Medical Research in July of 2004 on the use of an antifungal drug, fluconazole,
in treating chronic, advanced lyme disease. This pilot study examined 11
patients with chronic lyme. Dr. Schardt has slowly refined the protocol since
then, and believes it holds great promise in treating this difficult condition—
which is often misdiagnosed as chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia. Here follows
our interview:

Jill Neimark (JN): What made you think of using diflucan, an antifungal, to
treat lyme disease?

Dr. Fritz Schardt (FS): I was actually my first patient. I got lyme disease in
1989, and was given two weeks of doxycycline. Our country follows the protocols
set by yours, so that’s what is generally recommended. I now know that was very
inadequate and I do not think doxycycline should be used in early lyme disease
at all. It is only bacteriostatic, meaning it inhibits the bacteria but does
not kill them.

JN: I know, the same thing happened to me. At the doses they recommend, it also
does not penetrate the central nervous system. I had a fever, stiff neck and
bullseye rash. The stiff neck means it was already in my nervous system.
Therefore I probably needed six to eight weeks of doxycycline at double the
dose I was given. Higher doses will penetrate the CNS.

FS: Right. I recommend penicillin in early lyme disease.

JN: Amoxicillin is given here. Is that what you recommend?

FS: No, that’s broad spectrum, so you end up killing many bacteria, including
necessary ones in your gut. I recommend smaller spectrum penicillins. The
syphilis spirochete has not become resistant to penicillin, and there’s good
evidence that borrelia, the lyme spirochete, has not either. In Germany, we
have cefalosporine, roxithromycin, cotrim-TMPO, and clarithromycin. These are
all good choices. They should still be taken for 20-30 days.

JN: Okay, well, you took doxycycline so you ended up with chronic lyme disease.
What happened then?

FS: I was sick for 18 months. I was given intravenous rocephin several times. I
would feel better, but then once I stopped taking the antibiotics, I relapsed.
I was often bedridden and I thought I was ready for the wheelchair. Then, I
developed a fungal infection, possibly because of all the antibiotics. So I was
put on diflucan. This was around 1990. It was a new drug that was being used
mainly for opportunistic fungal infections in AIDS patients.

JN: And what happened?

FS: I got better. But I only stayed on it for two weeks at first, and then I
got worse again. So I went back on it for 30 days, and I got well.

JN: What was the dose?

FS: I took 100 milligrams twice a day.

JN: Are you completely well?

FS: I am very active and energetic and I feel quite well. I have since competed
in athletic events and won them. However, I do have an occasional heart
arrhythmia that I believe may be due to permanent damage from the spirochete.

JN: Tell me your reasoning as to why diflucan might work in chronic lyme.

FS: There are several reasons. First of all, it inhibits an enzyme called
cytochrome P450. This is an enzyme that your liver, for instance, uses to
detoxify chemicals and drugs. Borrelia has a very primitive p450 defense, so if
you inhibit it, it is easily weakened. Therefore I believe that diflucan
inhibits the growth and replication of borrelia. It does not necessarily kill
it. In addition, it penetrates well into the cells and into the nervous system
and brain, where borrelia may hide.

JN: What is your current protocol?

FS: I recommend 200 milligrams a day, for 50 days. There are now 200 milligram
pills available, so once a day is fine. Then I recommend 20-30 days of any of
the penicillins I mentioned. You may have to go through several cycles of this
protocol. You must also be very aware of other drugs that act on the p450
enzyme system, specifically a subset that inhibits CYP3A4. You should not be
taking any of these drugs at the same time as you take diflucan.

JN: What are some of these drugs?

FS: There are many, and it’s best to check with your doctor. Some common ones
are erythromycin, amitryptylin, midazolam, Lovastatin, and others.

JN: I hate antibiotics. Do you have to take the penicillin?

FS: I understand, many lyme patients come to hate antibiotics because they have
to take so many of them for so many years and are still ill. In fact, I also
was made ill by the antibiotics.

JN: They really disrupt your digestion.

FS: Right, that was my problem.

JN: So, this protocol is your best one-two punch against borrelia, but you
don’t have to take the antibiotics if you truly hate them.

FS: Right. In addition, diflucan has a slow half-life so it can slowly build up
in your bloodstream. Sometimes patients call me after a few weeks and say they
are feeling very ill on the protocol. Perhaps it’s a herxheimer, or perhaps
it’s that the levels of diflucan are higher than they can tolerate. So I say,
take a 3 or 4 day pause, and then go back on the protocol. This is perfectly
acceptable.

JN: What happens if you have a weak p450 system? Have any of your patients have
raised liver enzymes from the diflucan?

FS: I have been lucky, not one of my patients have had raised enzymes. It is
generally well tolerated. If it is a problem, however, you can lower the dose
of diflucan. This would be overseen by your doctor. I recommend 100 milligrams
in pediatric cases.

JN: How many patients have you treated now?

FS: At least eighty.

JN: What is the most difficult case you’ve had?

FS: I have one 75-year-old patient who has had lyme for 18 years. He was very
ill. He has had to do this cycle of diflucan and penicillin 3 times. He is
much, much better. In fact, he’s so happy with his improvement he called the
drug manufacturer to tell them they need to run a publicity campaign to promote
diflucan for chronic lyme disease.

JN: Some patients on some internet groups are adapting your protocol, probably
in concert with their doctors, and I’d like to know what you think of this.
They are suggesting staying on diflucan for 9 months, and some of them are
adding in low-dose minocycline. Are you aware of this?

FS: No, I am not aware of this.

JN: What do you think of the idea?

FS: I believe in the narrow-spectrum penicillins for borrelia, not the
cyclines.

JN: What about 9 months?

FS: That remains to be seen. Perhaps, like tuberculosis, some patients will
need to be on diflucan at least six months or more. Borrelia is a very
sophisticated organism, and one of the few bacterium with two cell membranes.
There is much we still have to learn about it.

(c) Jill Neimark, 2005.




www.immunesupport.com/library/print.cfm?ID=6431

[stonefly]

Ktos przeszedł kurację proponowaną przez Dr.Schardta,gdzieś był jakis stary
wątek i sprawa ucichła,czyżby zupełnie nieskuteczne?

[dziubolek2]

Chyba któraś z dziewczyn miała się tak przeleczyć ale nie wiem która. Może ktoś
spróbuje, szczególnie dobry byłby ktoś kto jest po antybiotykach. Sporo ludzi
tu pisze, że brało Fluconazol /Diflucan z powodu grzybicy poantybiotykowej i że
się super czuli ale nikt chyba nie pociągnął tych 50 dni.