American seeking teaching position

[Gość: entmoot_2000]

Hello all,

Hello,

I am an American (of Polish extraction) looking for a long-term teaching
position in Poland. I have a university degree in music and art history, and
have over two years experience teaching private music lessons to both adults
and children. I don't really know where to start, since many places I have
found require you to pay a fee to teach (!?!) or an expensive certification.

Most of my father's family still lives in and around Warsaw; we went to visit
them last winter, at which time I decided I wanted to return for longer than
one or two weeks.

If anyone has any information about teaching positions I would be extremely
grateful!

[Gość: jago]

Greetings from Poland.
Try 2 addresses:
groups.yahoo.com/group/polang-jobs (you'll have to log in)
and
www.go4it.home.pl
Consider asking Berlitz, too.
Good luck!

[Gość: Rena]

Dear Entmont,
Let me start by saying that it's quite surprising for you to expect that all
doors should open for you in Poland simply because you are an American. Those
days are long gone. Just like in any other country, including the US, you have
to have certain qualifications to become a teacher. It would be fair for you to
assume that a master's degree in TOEFL should suffice as your credential. Since
you don't have it, at least from what we know, you may want to think about
becoming qualified for the job before complaining about expectations being too
high. A number of private language schools in Poland offer TESL courses that
are moderately priced and prepare you for the job by introducing language
problems that many native speakers of English are not familiar with. They are
not there to trick you or rip you off, they simply teach you, during a very
short course, how to become effective as an EFL teacher. If you're not up for
the course, you can always try AmeriCorps. Just, please, show your students-to-
be some respect by gaining some qualifications.
I apologize if the above sounds a little bitter. I’m sure your intentions are
good. However, I've seen so many Brits and Americans, who thought all they
needed to be EFL teachers were their passports, that I became suspicious. You
may as well be a born teacher but you still need to have some theoretical
knowledge to share with your students.
Try to google CELTA in Poland and see what happens .Certainly the fact that you
have background in Polish culture (and perhaps language, too) should work to
your advantage. Good luck.

[Gość: entmoot_2000]

Dear Rena,

I appreciate your advice, but I find your tone to be offensive. I am not
just "some American or Brit" waltzing into Poland expecting a job; people go
there to teach English because they want to do some good in the world by
helping people communicate globally. If we were desparate to make money we
would stay at home or go to Japan where the pay rates are higher.

I am a second generation Pole on my father's side, and third generation on my
mother's. Polish is spoken in our home, although I do not have the fluency my
parents do. I also qualify for Polish citizenship, making me legally just as
Polish as the next person. What I'm interested in doing is furthering my
understanding of my own roots and culture, not exploiting some up-and-coming
nation by walking in and assuming I can teach English. With my level of Polish,
teaching English is the only job I am qualified to do; it is also the best way
I can think of to give back to my parents' and grandparents' country.

I understand your point about being weary of teachers with no credentials,
which is why I have been asking around for help in this sector. I am frustrated
because I have been coming across a lot of conflicting information in my
search, thus my post here for local advice. So far what I've gotten is helpful
and worth looking into; thank you all for your advice.

[Gość: Rena]

Entmoot,

I didn't mean to offend you and I've already apologized for my tone. If that
helps, I apologize again. I'm sure you're genuinely interested in teaching and
you're not "just "some American or Brit" waltzing into Poland expecting a job",
but believe you me there're plenty of them out there. And they're not there to
help,most of them, but to have a good time, date Polish chicks, and feel that
oh-I'm-just-like-mother-Theresa greatness about themselves. I've witnessed it
and it was totally sickening. Please, stay away from that.

In your initial post you asked for "any information about teaching positions",
which to me implied that getting qualified was not the first thing on your
list. I reacted defensively because I believe that an unqualified teacher can
do more harm than good. Period.

I'm sure you don't want to come to Poland to make a buck, that'd be a
ridiculous accusation. What I was saying is that there are different options
out there. Even though you can probably find some work without any knowledge
about the EFL field, wouldn't it be nicer, and more fair for that matter, to
actually have something to say when asked a grammar question? Why don't you
check out CELTA? Or try Callan. They're not my personal favorite, but at least
they provide their teachers with basic training.

[chickenshorts]

Sorry to be butting in like this but I have to say I sympathise with Entmoot,
not only because of Rena's tone, but also because of her denigrating
assumptions about Entmoot's abilities.

Rena explains her stance:
>(...) which to me implied that getting qualified was not the first thing on
your
> list. I reacted defensively because I believe that an unqualified teacher can
> do more harm than good. Period.<

No more than the so called "qualified" does. A cursory glance at the Polish
system of language teaching shows obsession with passing exams and obtaining
degrees rather than genuine communication skills. Suggesting getting qualified
first to a 'native' politely asking for some tips about teaching positions
smacks of Teachers Union mouthpiece running scared for his/her job... Sorry to
be blunt but that's exactly how Rena 'sounded' to me with her cocksure
assumption that TESL course settles the matter of teacher qualifications.
And then to say:
> wouldn't it be nicer, and more fair for that matter, to
> actually have something to say when asked a grammar question?>
was plain arrogant and stupid.

But you can't beat that maverick advice:

>Why don't you
> check out CELTA? Or try Callan. They're not my personal favorite, but at
least
> they provide their teachers with basic training.

from a genuinely concerned... pedagogue.

[Gość: Rena]

It's funny how you're accusing me of saying things that I've never said. Did I
say that finishing a TESL course settles the matter of qualifications? Frankly,
I don't believe it does. But at least it's a start, some kind of foundation, on
which to develop further qualifications. Do you, chickenshorts, think that you
could be a good Polish language teacher knowing nothing (I suppose) about
conjugation classes and differences in verb aspects? I wholeheartedly agree
with you that many English teachers in Poland put too much emphasis on grammar
and testing. It doesn't mean, however, that we should completely let go that
aspect of the language. While “genuine communication skills” should be the
primary concern and this is where having a "native" teacher helps enormously, I
believe these skills also need a solid grammar frame.
I'd be curious to know if you'd send your kid to a school that
employs "natives" without checking their credentials first? Would you? I
wouldn't. By the way, I'm not, and never been, a teacher and my workplace seems
quite secure.

[Gość: Ania]

"With my level of Polish,
teaching English is the only job I am qualified to do"

Just being a native speaker does not qualify you to teach English. You need to
know about teaching methodology too. The best way to show this to a prospective
employer is to have an appropriate qualification. Like Abby, I am involved in
teacher recruitment and would not consider someone who did not have a
qualification in teaching. Follow Rena's advice and check out CELTA, it would
give you a sound grounding in language teaching principles.

[Gość: Entmoot_2000]

Pertaining to the grammar issue:

I don't know about how it is in other places, but in Connecticut we have 12
required years of English (not counting university), with more than half of
those years focusing on grammar. Good written and communication skills are of
primary importance, but an native speaker who didn't sleep through school can
diagram a sentence and identify verb structure. Almost all universities have a
first year English writing/grammar requirement that is pretty severe;the
standard text almost all freshmen get is the "MLA guide to English Writing".
Most of this book is proper formatting and stuff you'll seriously never use,
but is taught nonetheless. This is probably _the_ most important course any
student will take.

I have recently made myself familiar with the CELTA/TEFL etc certifications and
think any course aiming to re-teach English to a native speaker is pretty lame
and a waste of money. It's like needing a certification to prove you can walk
and smile effectively to an infant!

Learning to deal with educational pedagogy, students and their questions is
another matter, and certainly a course worth taking.

[Gość: entmoot_2000]

Pertaining to typos:

Here I go on ranting about English grammar, and my last message is full of
typos! Please excuse any errors due to my sloppy typing. :-) :-o

PPS:

I don't know how much American TV you guys watch, but you probably notice lots
of people speaking very poor English. Rest assured these are _not_ likely to be
the people wanting to teach English abroad, or wanting to leave the country in
general.

[Gość: abby]

Dear Everyone,
I work for one of language schools in Warsaw and am responsible for recruiting
new teachers. From my experience (we employ about 200 teachers right now)I can
say with full responsilility for my words: qualifications do help! Getting a
CELTA is not just a matter of having a 'paper/document'. Those, who have CELTA
seem to have totally different attitude towards teaching and some more advanced
teaching techniques. There is no such thing as "natural born teacher", some
skills HAVE TO be learned. Otherwise, what do you know about '4 skills'
or 'error correction' or 'exam techniques'?!
"Expensive certification" you might call it. However, I never dare to hire a
person who has no formal training in teaching, since I believe such a person
might do more harm than good.

[chickenshorts]

"Like Abby, I am involved in
teacher recruitment and would not consider someone who did not have a
qualification in teaching. Follow Rena's advice and check out CELTA, it would
give you a sound grounding in language teaching principles."

Ah, the studious Poland with her ubiquitous Language Schools in every town and
city...
Right! Assuming that Abby, Ania and Rena are fairly representative of a general
attitude to foreign language teaching in Poland, it would follow then that a
great majority of teachers recruited for the task are highly qualified or, at
least, soundly grounded in teaching principles, would it not?

Why, then, so miserable results? I'll be more specific. Why is it that the
Polish school-leavers are no match for their peers from other European
(excluding France, of course) countries, Scandinavian ones in particular? These
young people, waving their FCEs or CAEs, could be quite embarassing. I've
witnessed it on quite a few occasions, for instance in London. I also asked a
few Danes about their English certificates. They seemed quite puzzled by my
question.

Aren't you, dear recruiters, helping in maintaining this sad Status Quo,
otherwise known as Cambridge Examinations racket.
As I've already pointed out in my earlier post, this whole obsession with
exams and certificates seems to divert attention from the REAL English, the one
people really use.

[amused.to.death]

> Why, then, so miserable results? I'll be more specific. Why is it that the
> Polish school-leavers are no match for their peers from other European
> (excluding France, of course) countries, Scandinavian ones in particular?

One of the reason is: they have subtitles in English films and programmes on TV. Helps a lot.

Qualified (!) teacher

[Gość: abby]

Sorry, but I have to disagree. My school teaches/trains only adults and the
progress of oour students is great!
Now, as far as the discussion about 'real English' is concerned, I see no
reason why you might believe that a person who gets a formal training in
teaching starts using any different dialect or teaching ONLY formal language. I
dare to say that even if you want to teach modern slang, it IS useful to know
HOW to do it!
And also knowing a little bit about methodolody does no harm to a teacher.

[nikusia1]

Hi entmoot,
did you contact the american or british school in warsaw ?
www.britishschool.waw.ids.pl
www.asw.waw.pl

good luck and all the best, hope to meet you here soon :)
nikusia

[chickenshorts]

Amused, I think you really hit one of the nails with your "One of the reason
is: they have subtitles in English films and programmes on TV. Helps a lot."
hammer.

[Gość: steph]

Chickenshorts, I fully agree with your opinion. There seems to be a language
school on every street corner in Poland; the range of certificates to obtain
sounds mind boggling; massive amounts of textooks, methods and experts. Yet if
you follow this forum for a while you'll discover that all those highly
certified graduates of language academies prefer to talk about their skills and
achievements in ... Polish. Well, that says a lot to me.
I believe that lessons with a native speaker create better results than classes
with Polish experts in methodology etc. 'In at the deep end' is the method that
works best where practical knwledge of a language is the aim.

[amused.to.death]

Don't you think we're talking about extremes?
I believe that lessons with a good teacher create good results. And while it's true that learning all about methodology doesn't make you a perfect teacher, it doesn't necessary mean that you'll be a great teacher just because you're a native speaker.

I've never wanted to teach Polish althought I had a chance. I speak Polish, I may talk to those who want to learn it - just for fun, but I wouldn't know how to teach it.

Just imagine: you want to learn Polish, and... yes, everyday conversations with some farmer or someone who is a security guard in prison may turn out helpful, but can you imagine them being your teachers in the classroom? I don't have to imagine, I had such teachers. Diseaster and waste of time.

I may not be objective while talking about teaching English:) but... I also learn French. I had many teachers: natives and non-natives.
First, a Polish woman with a Polish-like pronounciation - she taught me a lot, and I still remember how happy I was when I went to France and could somehow communicate.
Then, a French native speaker with a university degree - boring lessons, boring conversations, leaving the lessons with the feeling of non-acomplishment. I gave up quickly.
Next, a French girl studying Polish here - 20 years old, enthusiastic, intelligent, funny - one of the most wonderful teachers I've ever had. A pity she had to go back. I learnt SO much.
Next - a Polish girl studying French - a really good one, bright, patient.
There were some other teachers - average.
Now, I'm looking for some other one. It's really hard to find a good teacher.

I'm not saying that Entmoot with make a bad teacher. I don't know. He (?)might be really good, adored by his students. Hard to say.
But I do understand previous speakers who complained about native speakers. It's hard to find a good one here. Some are really wonderful. Others - you sometimes wonder if they are here because no one wanted to employ them in their countries, and their self-satisfactions pisses you off.

[Gość: awalk]

Dear Amused to death - can't you see
It all makes perfect sense...

First, a Polish WOMAN - I still remember how happy I was

Then, a French native speaker (a MAN I guess) - boring lessons, boring
conversations, leaving the lessons with the feeling of non-acomplishment.

Next, a FRENCH GIRL studying Polish here - 20 years old, - enthusiastic, intelligent, funny - one of the most wonderful teachers I've ever had. I learnt SO much.

Next - a Polish GIRL studying French - a really good one, bright, patient.

There were some other teachers (MEN I suppose)- average.

> Now, I'm looking for some other one. It's really hard to find a good teacher.

I understand your problem amusedtodeath there are a lot of beautiful girls around, a lot of inteligent ones, but a few of beautiful and inteligent (not to mention French) at once. :)

> I'm not saying that Entmoot with make a bad teacher. I don't know. He (?)might be really good, adored by his GIRL students. Hard to say.

Yes, Yes, can I ask you Entmoot - are you a handsome boy?

[amused.to.death]

Are you suggesting that I am a lesbian and look for beautiful and intelligent female teachers?
Funny:))))

[Gość: awalk]

"Why, then, so miserable results? I'll be more specific. Why is it that the
> Polish school-leavers are no match for their peers from other European
> (excluding France, of course) countries, Scandinavian ones in particular?

Come on cs you're complaining like an old lady.

The truth is we've made a great progress over the last 10-15 years. The results are not miserable just the opposite, the results are quite impressive.
It becomes quite common in Poland that young people take and pass CPE exam - something unheard of "not so long ago".

I understand your dislike of the Polish schooling system and Cambridge Examinations - they are not perfect and the results are sometimes strange and amusing, but the only alternative, to learn "REAL English" would be going to the English speaking country and staying there for a year or two, which unfortunately is not possible for the majority of the students.

I think it's not fair to compare us to Scandinavians etc. They have the obvious advantages.

> young people, waving their FCEs or CAEs, could be quite embarassing. I've
> witnessed it on quite a few occasions, for instance in London"

Yes, it is quite hilarious. Polish people are so much in love with all kinds of paper certificates, diplomas, licences etc. that they are unable to see how comical they are sometimes. But what do you expect? - love is always blind! :)

"...Cambridge Examinations racket." - Yes perhaps they've been around for too long now, but what would you propose instead?

To entmoot - I don't think you have looked hard enough for the job. Like I said the Polish love all kinds of paper certificates, so be prepared to present some. Hmm, how about your school diploma, university degree, passport, driving licence, birth certificate, health certificate - just to name a few. Be creative! In the end, you can print one yourself, assuming you know how to use the appropriate software :). Believe me most of Polish people will love it.

Do you think I'm joking?

[Gość: hubba bubba]

Hi entmoot!
if you still drop by here from time to time, please write an e-mail to this
address: [e-mail]

I think I would be able to help you (maybe it wouldn't be a lot but...)
Looking forward to your mail!!!

[amused.to.death]

BTW, have you tried calling the schools and talking to the headmasters in person? It's often much better than just sending CVs. If you make a good first impression, they may like you and hire you no matter what your qualifications are. It really may work, if you're a nice person.

[Gość: entmoot_2000]

1. I'm NOT a man (but I am cute! ;-) )
2. My university degree is in music EDUCATION and I have been TEACHING SCHOOL
for the past two years, although I think private lessons prove more useful to
those who REALLY want to learn piano and violin. As to the art history
minor...well, ok, that's proven to be fairly self-indulgent.
3. I have a BS, driver's licence, AAA card, ISIC card, us air frequent flier
miles, membership in the country dance and song society, and can operate a
riding lawn mower...what other English teacher in Poland can beat that? :-)

[erwas]

> 1. I'm NOT a man (but I am cute! ;-)

ah, well, ehemm. that changes everything.
there's an awful lot of Polish people out here, in New Mexico. they desperately
need to learn English. send me your flight details and I'll meet you at
Albuquerque Sunport (its a kind of an airport). we can then retire to my
mountain cabin and discuss an approach to this challenging, but no doubt
rewarding opportunity.

[Gość: iti]

I was hearing on Polish TV that some coutry schools need english teachers so
maybe you should consider such an option because big cities are really packed
with language schools and maybe it's not so easy to start there for a person
without formal education training although in existential sense probably easier
is in the cities. If you are qualifying for polish citizenship maybe from this
point you should start ..
Good luck.

[Gość: awalk]

I am the Music Man
I come from down your way
And I can play
I play the piano

Pi-a, pi-a, pi-an-o
Pi-an-o, Pi-an-o
Pi-a, pi-a, pi-an-o
Pi-a, Pi-an-o

Pi-an-o, Pi-an-o
Pi-a, pi-a, pi-an-o
Pi-a, Pi-an-o)

lol

[Gość: jago]

Hi, Entmoot,
Greetings
I've just read an ad.
There is a network of language schools looking for native speakers.
Qualifications required: TEFL, TESOL, or CELTA certificate or Bachelor or
Master of Education minimum 6 months of experience in teaching English as a
foreign language.
If you think you meet the requirements for this position, you can send your
application at [e-mail]
www.jdj.com.pl