are we so intolerant.....?

27.04.08, 23:05
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4956604.stm
There were always gays in Poland and they were always accepted to
some extend.
Ok they don't have the same rights like in UK ( civil partnership
ceremony, inheritance)but these rights even quite new here. I find
it abit annoying showing Poland as so intolerant country as it is
not true.
    • jonathan.oakley Re: are we so intolerant.....? 27.04.08, 23:24
      www.ilga-europe.org/europe/guide/country_by_country/poland/appeal_on_the_inter
      national_day_of_tolerance
      www.cracow-life.com/poland/gay-festival-krakow
      The mayor of Crackow approved the march so I guess that's a positive
      step for the future. As you say gay and lesbian rights are fairly
      new to the UK legal system..it took time to change and some brave
      people to speak up, like Quentin Crisp:
      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quentin_Crisp
    • Gość: polishhamster Re: are we so intolerant.....? IP: *.chello.pl 28.04.08, 22:35
      Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Another example of sticking one's head in the sand. Poland is by far the MOST intolerant place I have been to in a long while (in Europe, at least). Iwonka, kochana, nothing has changed in the two years since that article was written, apart from the fact that maybe Michał Kamiński (the President's spokesperson) has stopped using the word 'pedał' (poof/queer/any other disgusting derogatory comment) on public TV when referring to the problem. I suppose we should be happy that's progress. But quite frankly it's just insulting. Jonathan, please educate your Polish students that gay people are not paedophiles, nor are they porn-addicted perverts who are just waiting to 'turn' straight people into boa-waving fairies, but ordinary folk who would just like to be able to live on the same terms as everyone else, without being attacked on the street or getting the sack or having fingers pointed at them simply because they fancy people of the same sex.
    • Gość: polishhamster Re: are we so intolerant.....? IP: *.chello.pl 28.04.08, 22:55
      and one more thing (o irony)... if you want to see how tolerant PL is towards
      gay people, you just have to read today's article on this website
      www.gazetawyborcza.pl/1,75480,5133607.html and the comments on the forum
      to know that intolerance is very much alive and kicking. FYI Jonathan, the
      article is called 'Bad Company' and is about a grandmother seeking custody of
      her grandchild because the child's mother (her daughter) is a lesbian. And the
      comments...would make your toes curl.
      • 10iwonka10 Re: are we so intolerant.....? 29.04.08, 21:42
        I don't agree with you.
        It is a bit generalization what you wrote and shows a bit
        patronising and negative attitude towards Poland.

        Who was sacked in Poland for being gay????

        Example of grandmother-women like her are in UK and USA and
        anywhere.
        I think that young generation in Poland is quite open-minded but
        older people are not regarding gay-lesbian relationships.

        But let's be honest is it everyone so tolerant in Uk? how it looks
        with gay culture in small coal-mine towns in Wales, all small
        Lincolshire farm towns.....( sorry just random examples). I think
        that in UK there are law sanctions against any intolerance and that
        is what we need in Poland. I mean in general ageism, racism......

        • Gość: polishhamster Re: are we so intolerant.....? IP: 62.69.217.* 30.04.08, 11:53
          Unfortunately Iwonka I do know someone forced out of a job because they're
          gay...:( (a teacher forced to resign because of parental disgust) and yes you're
          right there are individuals in the UK who are intolerant but this attitude is
          not supported by those in a position of authority, unlike in PL...where even a
          simple gay pride march is met with attempts by local government to ban it :( or
          my friend who was mugged was laughed at by the police and rude comments made to
          him because he was mugged outside a gay club he'd been at :( and yes, there are
          intolerant grandmothers everywhere, but do you really think a court in the UK
          would even consider taking a child away from her mother because the mother was
          GAY?!!!
          sorki but that's the way it is...
          the BIG difference between the two countries is not about individual expressions
          of opinion but the wider state (Church?)-sanctioned view, which continues to
          support many -isms (like sexism, racism, ageism etc etc etc), perhaps not
          pro-actively, but definitely on an omissions basis. And that's what the BBC
          article was about...the fact that the authorities do not provide protection for
          people who want to go on a simple march. It was not about how individual Poles
          are intolerant (although it did mention that rather nasty group of young people
          whose name I will not mention).
          I will still encourage you to read the article 'Złe Towarzystwo'if you haven't
          done so already, and especially the comments right after it, which I find highly
          depressing. :(
          Pozdrawiam
    • jaleo Re: are we so intolerant.....? 04.05.08, 16:05
      I'd bet gay people in Poland wished you were right. However, saying
      that Poland is just as tolerant as the UK or other "Western" states
      is overoptimistic. Granted, the concept of civil partnership was
      only introduced in the UK a short time ago, however the equality of
      different sexual orientations has long been secured in the British
      public life and in law. It is safe to say that it is extrememly
      unlikely a gay march in the UK would be pelted by eggs and stones,
      and even if this happened, the law would be swift to act.

      Yes, it is true that bigoted and intolerant people exist in all
      societies, however the degree of public consent to such intolerance
      differs greatly between Polish and British society.

      Lastly, I don't think it's fair to say that the quoted article from
      BBC NEws "shows Poland as an intolerant country" when it's just
      reporting the news.
      • 10iwonka10 Re: are we so intolerant.....? 05.05.08, 17:58
        After living in uk for 6 years I must admit I don't find this
        country as tolerant as I thought.Lots tolerance is 'forced' here by
        law not by people convictions.Especially now under labour government.


        I think that gays marches are new in Poland so some people are
        agressively hostile against it but i think that maybe it is also
        influnced by our history. We were always fighting against something:
        inavasions of other countries ,supression of communist maybe now in
        democratic Poland there is a gap and people try to fill it??
    • Gość: Panajotow Poland is intolerant! IP: *.cec.eu.int 08.05.08, 16:57
      Poland is far from being tolerant and our society is rather narrow
      minded. Even that part of population which is not devoted to the
      catholic faith shares point of view of church authorities on gay
      people rights. Commnonly gay people, regardless sex, are not
      accepted and are persecuted not only in their working places but
      very often by their families. That is why so many of them left
      Poland for Britain. Of course this is mainly vocal harassement but
      still this is not very convienient when you cannot live normally and
      for example show your emotions towards partner in public places
      which is quite common if you are straight. Then stop saying,
      especially to Britons, that Poland is tolerant or fairly tolerant
      country. IT IS NOT!
      • 10iwonka10 Re: Poland is intolerant! 08.05.08, 20:30
        How many gay couple did you see in UK to>>>show your emotions
        towards partner in public places >>>>?????

        They do it but in gays clubs.
        I don't think that Poland is much more intolerant than UK. In
        UK "tolerance" is imposed by law in Poland it is not that is all.I
        met here quite a few narrow-minded English people so there is not
        point at comparing.
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