How dare you critisize England!? :)

[polska_potega_swiatowa]

Hello Jonathan,
you wrote; 'If you have any question about England, English people
or about English language just ask!'

So I patiently read your post, and ask you a question about English
people character, but you avoid answering any non-language
questions, simply giving the smarty answers, giving this attitude; I
do not care what you think about englishmen, this is the way it is,
and you can not question British people way, just accept it.

So I ask you again, can you just admit that English people are
snutty and stuck up? English folks are always ready to point out
what they do not like about Poland or Polish, and always do it in
rather rude way, but when others critisize your British culture or
English ways, you got offended? Grow up!

[Gość: Steve]

I looked up "snutty" to find what it meant. Amazing! See www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=snut

[polska_potega_swiatowa]

Gość portalu: Steve napisał(a):

> I looked up "snutty" to find what it meant. Amazing!



I meant to say; snubby, but I've wrote this without profreading, and
I guess mixed it up with; other english word with similar -otty,
obby) ending.

If I haven't made this one error, you would have no choice but
answer the question in my original post...

But given that Britts/ English people are snobbs, they act as if
having to admit to its flaws and shortcommings would be a major
offence to their empty pride.

[glasscraft]

polska_potega_swiatowa napisał:

> I meant to say; snubby, but I've wrote this without profreading
,

> If I haven't made this one error...

Two now... (proofreading)

[polska_potega_swiatowa]

glasscraft napisała:

> > polska_potega_swiatowa napisał:
> > I meant to say; snubby, but I've wrote this without
> > profreading,
> > If I haven't made this one error...

> Two now... (proofreading)

That is a good idea, every time some smart arse English person is
going to make a rude comment about Poland, East Europe etc, we can
ignore him, unless he says it in perfect polish :) But since few
Brits can speak a foreign language...we can just ignore them as well.

[Gość: Steve]

Please look at the Urban Dictionary entry. 'Snutty' makes perfect sense and I assumed it was what was originally intended. Sorry if I gave too much credit to the writer's knowledge and caused offence.

However, having got in this position already, what does 'snubby' mean? Snotty or snobby perhaps? If an answer is required, it would be better to know what the question means rather than ignoring it (as Glasscraft suggests)? Or is understanding considered an unnecessary part of the process?

[Gość: Steve]

Sorry Glasscraft, I meant PPS of course. Lack of proofreading myself.

[glasscraft]

Nae bother... though maybe it isn't such a stupid idea to ignore
this one...
Must be getting crowded in the coo-coo land if the let him out
again…

[polska_potega_swiatowa]

"snutty, snubby, snobby, snotty, notty, naughty"...Geez!
Don't you British have more variety or sounds and letters, when it
comes to creating words, adjectives etc? Stop beatting up same 3-4
leters and sylables, more originality please!

Polish language is more advanced and simply has more interesting
sounds to it; zarozumialy, wulgarny, zadzieraja nosa, swawolny,
nieprzyzwoity, paskudny etc.

[Gość: Steve]

My dictionary/translator gives the English equivalents as:

zarozumiały - 'conceited' plus 25 other meanings
wulgarny - 'vulgar' plus 7 other meanings
zadzierają nosa - 'ride your high horse' or more literally 'pull up your nose at something'
swawolny - 'frolicsome' plus 9 other meanings
nieprzyzwoity - 'indecent' plus 19 other meanings
paskudny - 'horrid' plus 14 other meanings

[polska_potega_swiatowa]

Well, of course the english language has a rich vocabulary, although
its basic forms come from old german which makes it sound simple and
unrefined, further the science and scholar english borrows heavly
for latin and greek, which further makes it sound sort of technical.

The Greek scholar and traveler in the 8th century A.D, describing
language and customs of Western Slavs (Polish tribes) has literaly
described old-Polish language as 'extremally "barbaric" wild and
untamed tounge' :) Mostly due to its irregular sounds, consonant
clusters, hissing sounds etc.

I would rather use word; poetic in regards to Polish,
than "barbaric" but the point is that in the antiquity Greeks and
Romans and early Christianity Romans and Greeks called all the
foreig tounges barbaric.

[jeanie_mccake]

glasscraft napisała:

> polska_potega_swiatowa napisał:
>
> > If I haven't made this one error...
>
> Two now... (proofreading)

Three, because starting this thread was a big mistake.
He's going to write exactly the same as he always does and make an
arse of himself again.

keeping up appearances.... it's silly!

[polska_potega_swiatowa]

Yes, and you Brits will keep pretending that you are perfect, while
complaining about flaws of all the others countries and
nationalities...

Care to make yourself up in the eyes of Poles, show your real face,
do not hide behind this silly; "keeping up the aprearances".

I guess it is cultural thing, and trying to change you Brits, is
like trying to take chopsticks and the rice from the asian people.

It I had more power, to enforce my will on you, you English would
propably baricade yourself and fight to the end so you can continue
enjoy..."keeping up apearances" :)

Well, everyone has its own hang ups...

[jeanie_mccake]

polska_potega_swiatowa napisał:

> Yes, and you Brits will keep pretending that you are perfect,
while
> complaining about flaws of all the others countries and
> nationalities...

Ha ha, like I said - the same old repetitive nonsense, based solely
on weird stereotypes that only Waldek understands about a country
he's never been to :-)

> It I had more power, to enforce my will on you, you English

I'm not English.

[polska_potega_swiatowa]

jeanie_mccake napisała:

> Ha ha, like I said - the same old repetitive nonsense, based
> solely on weird stereotypes that only Waldek understands about a
> country he's never been to :-)

...and of course we do not live in 21st century, but in the distant
dark ages where there's no telvision, internet, radio, and no
British men set it's foot outside of British isles!? :)
God, you are so stuborn, I speak to Korean, Spaniard, Mexican,
Nigerian or Ukrainian etc, and they all admit they flaws, but prits
never do, like they are going to die, if they did.


> > It I had more power, to enforce my will on you, you English

jeanie_mccake napisała:
> I'm not English.

Then you couldn't get more english sounding nick? If I don't want to
be identified with Americans I do not call itself; RedneckBill or
YankeeDoodle. I you do not want to identify with English people,
don't call yourself Jeanie McCake.

[glasscraft]

polska_potega_swiatowa napisał:

> jeanie_mccake napisała:
> > I'm not English.
>
> Then you couldn't get more english sounding nick?

Wee bit thick, are we?

[jonathan.oakley]

Are you a 'Generalizing Specialist?'

[polska_potega_swiatowa]

jonathan.oakley napisał:

> Are you a 'Generalizing Specialist?'


Oh, I get it...I am comitting major offence in your eyes, by
ignoring the "Keeping up appearances" rule, esential to the english
spyche / mentality. By pointing out your English shortcommings I
break this Eglish rule...

Well, you can "keep up your appearances" but I still think you Brits
are just full of it :)

[glasscraft]

What is "spyche"?

Laddie, when you produce your verbal diarrhoea, could you employ a
spell check before posting it?

[polska_potega_swiatowa]

glasscraft napisała:

> What is "spyche"?


Geez, you are stupid...
Psyche is same as your mentality, soul etc.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psyche_(psychology)

[glasscraft]

Geez, and you are trying to prove that Brits are stuck in their own
back passages? You are so deep in you own it would take you days for
you to see daylight again...

Boring

[seth.destructor]

There is no point in convincing anybody that Poles are in any way
special. They aren't.

[10iwonka10]

Because there is no one answer to your question. What is
it: 'English people character'? or 'Polish people character' ?
or 'Chinese people character'?- Except some culture similarities
people are just people good and bad, stupid and clever....

There is quite interesting Book 'Watching English'- written by Kate
Fox ( I think) I would recommend it.

I am anti- "keeping up with Joneses" mentality

[polska_potega_swiatowa]

10iwonka10 napisała:

> Because there is no one answer to your question. What is
> it: 'English people character'? or 'Polish people character' ?
> or 'Chinese people character'?- Except some culture similarities
> people are just people good and bad, stupid and clever....


Yes, and you should add that Chinese differ from English, and Poles
are quite different than English. I realise that many people
regardless from what culture they come from, consider themselves
unique, but the reality is that a Japanese person always tends to
say; Tra-ee-noo instead of train, and let out a sigh; hhhheeeaaaa,
instead of just saying; yes, yeah :)

For example I have one Muslim Indian person where I work, he is
offended when someone ask him; "Here is he from?"

He said he grew up in USA, but why is he watching Boliwood movies
and Muslims clerics on Youtube, and eating curry rice and cooked
vegetables all the time? I mean, why are people trying to pretend
that they are something they are not?

If everything about you is British, the fact that you eat beef lo
main onceinawhile, or speak 10 words in Polish, doesn't make you a
cosmopolitan person, or unique :)



> There is quite interesting Book 'Watching English'- written by
> Kate Fox ( I think) I would recommend it.

The problem with this book is that it can not be umpartial and
objective, since it is writen by a English person itself. Of course
she is going to defend and glofy everything English. The best idea
would be a book about English writen by Arab, Slav or Latin person,
then they would write how English really are, and how others see
them.

Reading a book about English by an English person is like reading a
book about Soviet Russia writhen by Russian, it makes no sence, you
can bet it would be biased.

[Gość: Steve]

Actually, being English and able to speak a reasonable amount of Polish is not only not cosmopolitan, it is indicative of a pretty narrow world view, I'm proud to claim.

[10iwonka10]

Why????

Why speaking reasonably any foreign language is indicative of narrow
world view?

[10iwonka10]

>>>Of course she is going to defend and glofy everything English.>>>

She doesn't.

There is another very witty book written by Hungarian who spent
about 40 years in UK. I dont't remember title .....Will have to
check.

[zezem_prosto_w_oczy]

The last time I saw such a tremendous amount of bullshit questions and
misspelled words in English was, when accidentally entered some dodgy Ukrainian
chat room....
I admire your perseverance Steve.

Greetings from London.

[polska_potega_swiatowa]

zezem_prosto_w_oczy napisała:

> The last time I saw such a tremendous amount of bullshit questions
> and misspelled words in English was, when accidentally entered
> some dodgy Ukrainian chat room....

I see you also succumbed to the british "keeping up appearances"
crap. You are so desperatly trying to act british, as if you didn't
have your own identify, that is a sign of your feeling of insecure
about your polishness.

English language is used worldwide for international communication,
nothing more, only fools like you think that they must make a switch
to English mentality...in order to be respected. Talk to any Arab,
Japanese, or Russians who visit UK and use speak english language
there, they are still Arab, Japanese or Russians. Why do you think
it is nessesary to think english when speaking the language? What if
you just want to make business in UK, but you do not care about its
lame stiff upper lip trash? ::


What "bullshit questions"? For Brits talking about its own failures
might be bulshit, but for Poles it makes and extreamlly interesting
subject. Besides this is Gazeta.pl not Gazeta.uk so there's no
requirement to act or think british.


> I admire your perseverance Steve.
> Greetings from London.

Yes, keep up sucking up to the Brits, damn it is so ridiculous of
you.

[Gość: Steve]

I am far too slow-witted to be able to think in English and speak Polish. Since my Polish is pretty awful, I get tremendous feelings of frustration in serious conversation when I want to say something, but my mind is blank: an interesting experience when considering the intellectual position of people with limited vocabularies even within their own culture.

The only saving element for my confidence is that, of Polish people outside work who have started out by telling me how good their English is, the vast majority have quickly moved to speaking in Polish. There have, however, been a couple of Polish only speakers who have made clear that all I speak is a loud of garbled rubbish. Fortunately, there have usually been other people around that could translate my version of Polish into more acceptable Polish.

You have not only my sympathy, but also my admiration for trying so hard despite the difficulties.

I don't remember ordering a British bull s.h.i.t

[polska_potega_swiatowa]

I think your response is out of place, as it doesn't fit at all the
subject we are discussing. We are talking about British big headed
attitude.

Do yourself a favor and ask your polish friends what does the
frase; "byc rownym gosciem" means in polish culture. Then you will
understand that your english staborn "keeping up appearances" is all
pure garbage.

I do not care who you pretend to be, I care WHO YOU ARE.

[Gość: Steve]

Do you know the English TV comedy series 'Keeping Up Appearances' (Co Ludzie Powiedzą!)? As far as I recall, it was largely the situational type comedy you said you liked, with little imaginative use of words. Its my mother-in-law's favourite comedy (with Polish lektor) after 'Świat według Kiepskich' and she also doesn't like to have to think too much for her entertainment. The series nicely shows how what others think we are pretending to be, actually defines what we are.

[Gość: bratdominik]

Hi Steve and everyone following this thread,

As to the TV series it actually shows a well-known psychological rule knows as self-fulfilling prophecy, i.e. we start to behave in such a way as to confirm the expectations of our environment. That's why it often happens people start disliking a person if the person initially dislikes them, or - in other words - we like the ones who like us.

As to the initial question, posed by the initiator of the thread, let me quote what I once heard from an English colleague of mine from an office in Folkestone, Kent, where I spent some time. I told him once I'd observed quite a few colleagues of ours to criticise a person behind their back despite appearing to be truly friendly towards them just seconds before. I added that since it was quite different from what I'd experienced while living in Poland, I was unable to grasp the reason for such behaviour. His answer was stunningly original: "My dear" he said, "and how could we have once ruled half of the world otherwise?"

The reason I'm quoting this situation is that I've also been wondering why some English people seem to be able to die in order to keep appearances, no matter what. Having said that, it needs to be stressed that I know quite a few English people who - to me - appear to have lost this desire, so I realise it isn't a universal truth. Still, the question remains unanswered... Would you care to deal with it, Steve? What does it look like from your personal perspective? I hope it doesn't bother you too much...

Reality does not matter in UK, appearanced do :)

[polska_potega_swiatowa]

Gość portalu: bratdominik napisał(a):

> I once heard from an English colleague of mine from an office in
> Folkestone, Kent, where I spent some time. I told him once I'd
> observed quite a few colleagues of ours to criticise a person
> behind their back despite appearing to betruly friendly towards
> them just seconds before. I added that since it was quite
> different from what I'd experienced while living in Poland, I was
> unable to grasp the reason for such behaviour.


> His answer was stunningly original: "My dear" he said, "and how
> could we have once ruled half of the world otherwise?" The reason
> I'm quoting this situation is that I've also been wondering why
> some English people seem to be able to die in order to keep
> appearances, no matter what.

Great! Nice to hear the actuall and thoughtful answer to my
question, rather then the usual attitude from the Brit who is
offended by someone like me puting him on the hot chair.

Of course we want to get a truth. Everyone can create his own
virtual reality, I met meny Indian/Pakistani people who emigrated to
US and they say stuff like; "Poland is a very very poor country" at
the same time telling others that; "India is one of the top
countries in the world, best developed, most educated people in the
world etc"... While the reality is that literaly hundreds of milions
of people in India live in a dire poverty; barefoot, hungry and
living in the slums.

While in Poland, you will never see the mass slums like in India,
yet the Indians spread lies about "Poor Poland". I mean you really
have to be conceited and biased to say India is a rich country, and
Poland is poor. I believe Indians have aquired this attitude from
British while they were ruled by Great Britain.

[glasscraft]

polska_potega_swiatowa napisał:

> I believe Indians have aquired this attitude from British while
they were ruled by Great Britain.

I would also blame ice age on them...

[polska_potega_swiatowa]

glasscraft napisała:

> > I believe Indians have aquired this attitude from British while
> they were ruled by Great Britain.

> I would also blame ice age on them...


Brits often accuse other nationalities of all evil, while themselves
want to remain immune from any critique... I mean people around the
world have the same right to complain, as Brits do :)

[glasscraft]

You need help mate or a hobby...

[polska_potega_swiatowa]

glasscraft napisała:

> You need help mate or a hobby...

I have my lady, and my hobby is critisizing British culture, or lack
of thereof :)

[jeanie_mccake]

polska_potega_swiatowa napisał:

> Great! Nice to hear the actuall and thoughtful answer to my
> question

So you've finally heard an anecdote that seems to confirm your
prejudices about somewhere you've never been. It also fits in with
the stereotype about the south of England that they have where I
come from.
How does this relate to reality, though? Well you'll never know, but
then you don't actually care much about reality anyway.

> Everyone can create his own
> virtual reality

Well, at least that's one thing you do know something about :-)

[polska_potega_swiatowa]

jeanie_mccake napisała:

> So you've finally heard an anecdote that seems to confirm your
> prejudices about somewhere you've never been. It also fits in with
> the stereotype about the south of England that they have where I
> come from.
> How does this relate to reality, though? Well you'll never know,
> but then you don't actually care much about reality anyway.

Friend of mine a afro-american once said; "my people (blacks) don't
like stereotypes about themselves, because IT IS true..." :)
Of couse Brits and other nationalities would love that people from
other countries seen them as flawless, smart and just perfect. But
the reality is that people DO have flaws, Brits have them, Poles
have them.

British folks love to point those flaws owned by Poles and others,
so let me have my turn to pick on Brits as well :)


> > Everyone can create his own virtual reality
> Well, at least that's one thing you do know something about :-)

Yes, you can edit any misquote any statment from just about anyone.
The virtual reality I was refering to was British virtual reality.
If you have something to say on the subject, this is your
oportunity, right now, if not, please refrain from speaking, perhaps
you can drink your tea now or have you bacon egg and beans :)

[Gość: Steve]

Being friendly to people you don't like: my wife once suggested to me that the British are extremely aggressive and have therefore evolved a linguistic, social and cultural system that is ingrained into people to avoid conflict. I think it is an excellent way of looking at the British, whether true or not. It helps explain many things that outsiders find very odd about the way we speak - "can I have a coffee, please" rather than "give me a coffee" - and act - being nice to people we don't like. (I assume a similar analysis could be made for every culture, however.)

Failing to comply with these social conditions means that you are being rude and therefore behaving badly. Being nasty to someone you don't like makes you the guilty person, not them. What may seem to others as being hypocritical, is an effective way of maintaining social balance. (Many British people consider this hypocrisy.) Although this applies for much/most social behaviour, it can be especially seen within an office atmosphere, which is often full of social tension. Bad relations between people can make work extremely difficult. I was once forbidden by my boss to speak to the head of the office next door because they hated each other. Since I had to get information from them, one was happy telling everyone that his enemy was excluded, whilst the other was happy that everyone else could see that he wasn't. The result being that they were both considered to be complete idiots, which helped destroy their credibility as office managers. (Eventually their boss told them to sort it out and 'stop behaving like children'.) Being nice to people is automatic within the behaviour system, but there are (probably indefinable) limits. On one side, people who are overly nice to a person in authority that everyone hates, such as a boss or teacher, are regularly criticised for 'sucking up" or brown nosing": normally behind their backs of course. On the other side, open hostilities of one sort or another erupt, which normally makes life extremely difficult for people around them.

However, whilst this helps ease and reduce social friction, it also creates much wider frustrations. Although I don't want to suggest that British people generally are anything like the impression one gets from the news, there is an undercurrent of general aggression that is dissipated by such things as supporting your football club, getting pissed and behaving appallingly on Friday and Saturday nights (and when you go on holiday to Krakow, etc), not to mention killing you neighbour because he has parked on the place in the street where you normally park.

Sorry this is so long, but I do like my wife's theory. However, people are so different and I have known so few that I can only really speculate about its relevance.

Eventually reaching your second point, I don't understand the idea of dying in order to keep up appearances. Perhaps you could give me an example. To me, this concept is something dreamt up by well educated, comparatively affluent people - the type that dominate the media and create a completely false perspective of national character. It is intended to ridicule the inferior elements of society who want to do things that only culturally superior people should do (in their opinion). Its the reverse of "keeping up with the Jones'", where other people having or doing nicer things does not mean that the person complaining is inferior, but that the neighbours are ridiculous. I assume you mean something very different.

[polska_potega_swiatowa]

Indeed an interesting theory...By the way your wife you are refering
to, is she British, Polish or some other nationality? I am somewhat
puzzled why would you quote your spouse, instead of speaking your
own mind. I am much more interested in hearing native British person
confess of "being rude and agressive" rather then having an outsider
make such a conclusion.

Generaly we all know what stereotypes (the ugly truth) about British
people is. Somehow it means more if an English or British person
speaks the truth about his own nationality.

But overall great comment, I appreciated your diagnosis of "British
psyche". Myself, I admit that I was bit too pushy and insistive
about getting the straight truth out of British nationals present
here on Gazeta forum. We should let the Poles be Poles, and British
folks be Brits, I guess it makes this world more exciting, to see
the variety of characters, that makes life fun :)

[Gość: Steve]

My wife is Polish and I give the credit to her because I don't want to claim her idea as my own. I hope I made it clear that I think it is an excellent way of thinking about us British or, at least, us Southerners (before Jeannie corrects me). My primary reservation is that there may be other analyses that fit the facts just as well. However, considering the possibility that the British normally try to be nice and polite to other people because they are basically nice and polite people is just a bit too boring to be worth the effort.

[Gość: bratdominik]

Well, Steve, some British people are probably basically nice and polite - it's the rule of statistics (Gaussian curve). I don't reckon this idea to be too boring, rather it's a simple fact of life.
I'm glad you were able to address my interest. I was hoping to see a bit more personal side of yours. That's what I value most in communication: openness without playing games.

[Gość: Steve]

Please define 'personal' and 'openness'. I don't understand.