Are Polish teaching English qualified enough?

[Gość: blue]

How many of you learn English in some courses or individual clases? Do you
think that it's enough to be the fourth year student at the English
Department to be a teacher? or that all the teaher should be after graduation?
I can stand the idea that someone who is in college ( with no experience,
knowledge etc) teaches English at school or somewhere else.

[Gość: blue]

there is a misprint. I wanted to say " I can't stand"; in the text there is " I
can" I apologize:)

[Gość: Prezes]

Gość portalu: blue napisał(a):

> How many of you learn English in some courses or individual clases? Do you
> think that it's enough to be the fourth year student at the English
> Department to be a teacher?

Perhaps not, but what alternatives do we have ?
Someone has to do it.
I am afraid that teachers' salaries are not that great
to attract too many people for the job.

> or that all the teaher should be after graduation?
> I can stand the idea that someone who is in college ( with no experience,
> knowledge etc) teaches English at school or somewhere else.

[Gość: ABeCe]

well teaching in language schools or giving classes to people from big
companies, which is more and more common can be actually very profitable
activity.

[Gość: Prezes]

Gość portalu: ABeCe napisał(a):

> well teaching in language schools or giving classes to people from big
> companies, which is more and more common can be actually very profitable
> activity.

really ? How much can you make ?
Hmmm... maybe I should quit my job ?

[Gość: mamosz]

That`s quite a good money ab 60-70 PLN per hour.But what`s radiculous the
language schools seem to tend to employ very young unexperienced teachers
rather than more experienced which I can`t understand .Is the age the main
factor at this job too?

[Gość: Prezes]

Gość portalu: mamosz napisał(a):

> That`s quite a good money ab 60-70 PLN per hour.

That 's not bad at all, I think.
But still, I guess, I will not quit my job yet.
Besides, I am a louzy teacher anyway.

> But what`s radiculous the
> language schools seem to tend to employ very young unexperienced teachers
> rather than more experienced which I can`t understand .Is the age the main
> factor at this job too?

[Gość: English teacher]

Well. it's not true. Maybe in Warsaw it happens, but not in other places.
School takes ca 60-70 zl per hour, but teachres get ca 30. On private lessons
you can have a bit less (ca 25 zl) people just won't pay more. Sorry to
disappoint you, but teaching English is not just a peace of cake. And you work
all afternoons and evenings, so forget going to moovie or just for a drink
with your friends Friday evening.
With best regards,
English Teacher

[Gość: mona]

Tell me where, I would like to work there. In fact if you are a young teacher
you do not earn that much. Half of it is much closer to the reality, I suppose.

[mouchi]

Gość portalu: ABeCe napisaý(a):

> well teaching in language schools or giving classes to people from big
> companies, which is more and more common can be actually very profitable
> activity.
bull shit

[Gość: jr]

I studied english at high school 3 hours a week and had a pretty shit teachers,
and in addition I have never done 1 homework!!! I hated english I always
thought it is useless… after all I went to study overseas at uni in english and
found no problems. it so simple… you do not need super teacher to learn that
language the only hard part is pronunciation,. anyone who spends big bucks on
english should wake up and do it by himself!!! stop wasting money!!!

[Gość: mamosz]

Gość portalu: jr napisał(a):

> I studied english at high school 3 hours a week and had a pretty shit
teachers,
>
> and in addition I have never done 1 homework!!! I hated english I always
> thought it is useless… after all I went to study overseas at uni in engli
> sh and
> found no problems. it so simple… you do not need super teacher to learn t
> hat
> language the only hard part is pronunciation,. anyone who spends big bucks on
> english should wake up and do it by himself!!! stop wasting money!!!
So your english teachers weren`t so bad after all.Don`t you think that what
you`ve written it`s a bit arogant? You weren`t too devoted student
anyway,that`s why you weren`t too successful.Learning language is mostly
selfeducation,the teacher is just a kind of leader.And as people here said he
or she must have a kind of gift besides being well qualified. Learning in
Poland and doing it in the english speaking surrounding is something absolutely
different especially at your age when you just pick up the language.

[Gość: kama]

Do you think that the conditions under which teachers are expected to teach are
good enough? Take a closer look and say if it`s possible to be a good teacher
being given 3 hours a week (to be frank 3*45min) to make students understand?
Were 3 hours enough for you and your friends to understand and learn the
pronunciation? Obviously not.What about having 30 pairs of eyes in a classroom
looking at you as if you were talking Greek? Do you think that teachers like
that? That`s way you shouldn`t have offended your former techers since it`d not
been either their fault or choice.If they had been given a choice they would
have changed the education system which would be more beneficial for two sides,
both students and teachers.
And what about students who perceive themselves to be the most..the best...and
as a matter of fact they can hardly give anything from themselves (homework is
such a drudgery, right?) and blame others for their failures.
It`s a never ending conflict which raises a great deal of controversy so I`ll
stop it where I am.
Good Luck to all people eager to develop their lingual skills.

[Gość: pandee]

No, most of them aren't, especially the ones teaching in public schools.
Reasons? Economical... No one who can use their GOOD English in some other way
will go to school and slave for nothing (been there, done that). Besides, when
you start working at school you have no time for improving your skills and you
do the same thing over and over again. Anyone would go nuts :)
Yes - our colleges are shitty, at least most of them. I've met people who
wanted to work for a respectable language school - they had a degree and
absolutely no skills whatsoever - and I mean teaching skills as well. Reasons?
Native speakers who taught them weren't qualified enough, their Polish teachers
didn't care, they had no gift for teaching/language etc.
Solution? Anyone? :)

[Gość: erwas]

Gość portalu: pandee napisał(a):

> Solution? Anyone? :)

market economy?
if schools want to attract students they will need to offer good English
teachers competitive salaries. this will offer a solution to those who can
afford to live in area with good school districts or who can afford to send
their children to private schools.
as so many people in Poland have already noticed, market economy does not
necessarily lead to social justice. post-PGR and other poor areas will fall
further and further behind educationally, economically and socially, since they
will not be able to compete on an open market.
until across-the-board standards of living increase English teaching WILL have
to be subsidized with tax money. like it or not, learning English is an
essential part of modern education, even if you plan to work behind a fast-food
counter all your life.
erwas

[Gość: Koka]

Gość portalu: pandee napisał(a):

No one who can use their GOOD English in some other way
> will go to school and slave for nothing (been there, done that).

What about vocation? Some teachers teach in public schools cause they love
their job. Money is not that important. They teach at lg courses for money.

Besides, when
> you start working at school you have no time for improving your skills and
you
> do the same thing over and over again. Anyone would go nuts :)

It's not true. Teaching a language is fun. There are so many activities, games,
exercises. Besides it's up to the teacher whether he/she improves his/her
skills or not.

[Gość: Bert]

Gość portalu: pandee napisał(a):

(...) No one who can use their GOOD English in some other
way will go to school and slave for nothing (been there,
done that).

Are you sure you are one of them?

[Gość: mamosz]

You can`t teach english without qualifications, the time it was possible is
over.And the requirements are quite high especially in Warsaw.Th same thing
fortunately has happened regarding to native speakers who also have to be
trained as teachers not just speak english.So I don`t understand some
opinions you probably do not have too much knowledge or experience in the
matter dear friends.

[Gość: kama]

Hi.Good for you that Warsaw has such a demand.I strongly agree. In Bydgoszcz
you can still find hundreds of young people teaching at schools having hardly
their FCE passed.That results in a serious problem. They are often taught
inaccurate English and it`s where everytning begins.

[mouchi]

Gość portalu: pandee napisaý(a):

> No, most of them aren't, especially the ones teaching in public schools.
> Reasons?
Economical... You mean of course, ECONOMIC, because Economical=cheap, so your
car can economical.
cheers
No one who can use their GOOD English in some other way
> will go to school and slave for nothing (been there, done that). Besides,
when
> you start working at school you have no time for improving your skills and
you
> do the same thing over and over again. Anyone would go nuts :)
> Yes - our colleges are shitty, at least most of them. I've met people who
> wanted to work for a respectable language school - they had a degree and
> absolutely no skills whatsoever - and I mean teaching skills as well.
Reasons?
> Native speakers who taught them weren't qualified enough, their Polish
teachers
>
> didn't care, they had no gift for teaching/language etc.
> Solution? Anyone? :)

[Gość: JK]

There are two different things to be discussed. One is qualifications and one
is just "something" that a good teacher must have. You can be well qualified
and know all about something but be really hopeless at teaching. I have tried
it some times. One was when I wanted to learn French 2 years ago. So I chose
one of good Warsaw language schools. My teacher was a young woman. She was
still a student. It was my first contact with French so I had no idea whether
her French was good or not. But certainly I can say she was extremely bad at
teaching. All that we did was every single exercise from our course books and
only a bit of speaking. Sometimes she didn't even know the correct answers.
Quite often while we were doing our exercise she was reading her Teacher's Book
to get the idea what to do next. I gave up the course after 2 months. I
couldn't stand paying for such shitty work.
I had similar situation a week ago. I was attending a course for overseas
teachers of English in London. As a part of it I had some lesson observations.
Most of them were really great but one was exactly the same as my French
lessons in Poland. And the teacher was qualified and she was a native speaker.
I saw only one of her lessons. Maybe she had a bad day or so. But still:
qualifications is not enough. You have to have this "something" that allows you
to feel what you do. And it's not only a problem of English teachers but all
people doing any job.

[Gość: Rachel]

What about native-speakers teaching English and their qualifications? Most of
them think it is "more than enough" to be a native-speaker, while they don't
have a clue how to express themselves properly. They come here from diverse
backgrounds, often with rudimentary education, often becasue they want to feel
better and upgrade from being unemployed home to being the "guy from out
there", who all the teenage girls run after and want to marry.A lot of expads
(teachers) think teaching English is taking a lot of piss and a lot of money.I
have never heard native speakers say that they need to prepare a class. They
just improvise. I think it is high time we stopped treating them like deities.

[Gość: A]

I would not accept anyone improvising. An essential part of teaching English is
teaching the language structures. Presentation of these structures and learning
requires a systematic approach and therefore cannot be improvised. For
beginners, the teacher should ideally be bilingual (Polish - English). Teaching
is a skill and cannot be replaced by just anything, if you are serious about
mastering a foreign language within a reasonable period of time.
Once you are more advanced, you can quite successfully take English
conversation with someone who is a native speaker.

[Gość: erwas]

Gość portalu: A napisał(a):

> I would not accept anyone improvising.


do you know what the qualifications for being an English teacher are? I guess
that they differ betwen public schools and language schools and whatever other
English teaching situations there are.

erwas.

[Gość: n]

And what about people who teach both at public and language schools? Funny
thing about it is that they are perceived differently by the "public" and "lg
school" students and their parents.For the first ones they aren't "good enough
to teach my son English" while for the others "Good Heavens!- my son finally
speaks English".

[mouchi]

Gość portalu: A napisał(a):

> I would not accept anyone improvising.
if you can tell that your teache is improvising. it is one of the key skills of
a good teacher to be able to improvise.
An essential part of teaching English is
>
> teaching the language structures. Presentation of these structures and
learning
>
> requires a systematic approach and therefore cannot be improvised. Oh yes it
can, trust me.
For
> beginners, the teacher should ideally be bilingual (Polish - English).
Ideally, I don't think so.
Teaching
>
> is a skill and cannot be replaced by just anything, if you are serious about
> mastering a foreign language within a reasonable period of time.
> Once you are more advanced, you can quite successfully take English
> conversation with someone who is a native speaker.
true.

[kociamama]

I can't agree more

[maurycy]

In my opinion, Polish EFL teachers, in a copycat fashion, use general
methodology applicable to any nation not taking into account Polish specifics.
They are well prepared, as far as the teaching of grammar goes, forgetting that
the a foreign language learning should be focused on communication.
We need communicators not linguists.

[mouchi]

maurycy napisał:

> In my opinion, Polish EFL teachers, in a copycat fashion, use general
> methodology applicable to any nation not taking into account Polish
specifics.
?????? what is Polish specifics and how does it change methods of teaching?
> They are well prepared, as far as the teaching of grammar goes, forgetting
that
>
> the a foreign language learning should be focused on communication.
???????? How to communicate without basic grammar???? teach vocabulary and let
the students speak: I be a student. ??????????/

> We need communicators not linguists.
Do we??????????????

[Gość: mysia2000]

have you ever heard of such term? it's how working at public school is
described by some of my collegues.(most of them work in lg schools that don't
pay insurance stuff(this may be why they employ students)) I don't agree that
working at public school makes teachers get bored and that this results from
their lack of time to develop their teaching skills. 1.)total working time at
public school is 18x45 minutes A WEEK!!!!!!(whereas almost 40 x60min being
regular full time job)-so plenty of time left!I'd love to be able to work that
little!2).most English teacher have nooooooo idea of methodology,have bever
heard of Harmer,P.Ur,and had some lecture on methodology during their studying
at English Philology Departament.
and I agree that communication is the most important thing in ELT-grammar is
just a tool that helps to communicate, not an end itself!!!elementary students
(even adults) love when I tell them "now you can buy any food because you know
how to say "I'd like to..."
Polish students tend to overcorrect themselves which annoys native speakers who
try to communicate with them- that's the burden caused by theacher who insist
on occuracy too much.Nobody swims perfectly the very moment they are put in
water.one must practice but how to practice if somebody shouts at every mistake
you make?

[Gość: Mouchi]

Gość portalu: mysia2000 napisał(a):

> have you ever heard of such term? it's how working at public school is
> described by some of my collegues.(most of them work in lg schools that don't
> pay insurance stuff(this may be why they employ students)) I don't agree that
> working at public school makes teachers get bored and that this results from
> their lack of time to develop their teaching skills. 1.)total working time at
> public school is 18x45 minutes A WEEK!!!!!!
BULL SHIT! you know nothing about teaching if you say so. to all that hours you
MUST add time you must spend on preparation of lessons, tests, checking tests
etc. and it takes a lot of time. if you are a teacher and you don't do that you
are not a professional teacher and what you do is cheating.
(whereas almost 40 x60min being
> regular full time job)-so plenty of time left!I'd love to be able to work
that
> little!2).most English teacher have nooooooo idea of methodology,have bever
> heard of Harmer,P.Ur,and had some lecture on methodology during their
studying
> at English Philology Departament.
I am not a fan Of EPD students, but just knowing the name you mention does not
make you a good teacher.
> and I agree that communication is the most important thing in ELT-grammar is
> just a tool that helps to communicate, not an end itself!!!elementary students
> (even adults) love when I tell them "now you can buy any food because you
know
> how to say "I'd like to..."
> Polish students tend to overcorrect themselves which annoys native speakers
who
>
> try to communicate with them- that's the burden caused by theacher who insist
> on occuracy too much.Nobody swims perfectly the very moment they are put in
> water.one must practice but how to practice if somebody shouts at every
mistake
>
> you make?
if you shout at your students for mistakes I am sorry for them. but teaching
means correctness. what would you think of a teacher if his/her students spoke
incorrectly? that his is a crap. a teacher is evaluated after his/her students
skills.

[Gość: ABeCe]

it all depends on the approach of teachers. I know ones that insist on
communication and ones that are overconcerned with grammar. The first ones
allow thier students to speak with mistakes, not neccesarily using perfect
grammar, while the others correct every single mistake. The result is clear -
the corrected students have only a theoretical knowledge, nonetheless they are
not prepared to real life situations, in which they will have to face native
speakers and simply start communicating. Of course it's simplification,
however I think that in many ways it is true.
regards.

back to teaching

[Gość: aggie]

grammar is as much of importance as communication. a lot of new language
teaching systems, like 'callan method'or some of Berlitz courses, create some
insane situations where students have the ability to communicate
almost 'fluently' makin all sort of absurd elementary mistakes which are
extremely difficult to get rid off in the further studies. the solution:
ballance both.

[Gość: ABeCe]

you are right. you need to balance both, but still I do think that more focus
should be on communication. sketch grammar problems, briefly explain them and
then try to use these structures or whatever it is in conversations. That of
course does not eliminate grammar as a part of teaching process.

And one more conclusion - we should bear in mind that sometimes even most
experienced teacher is useless if the student is not motivated to study. No
methodology then is going to help. So students' responsibility is really high
and additional self-study is vital.
Regards to all.

:)))))))))))))

[Gość: ABeCe]

fair enough

-to Mouchi

[Gość: mysia2000]

mouchi- I don't understand your attack on me-
1)I DO prepare A LOT to my classess but the more experienced I am the less time
I need ( at least I can use some activities ADAPTING them to my class)
2) I still insist that at public school you spend less time on preparation as
some (or most )classes are divided in two = you do the same lesson TWICE but
prepare ONCE
3)I didn't mean to show off my knowledge of methodology but it served as an
example of the most obvious methodology names that EPD graduates have never
heard of
4) how do you know if I shout at my Ss or not? what makes you to jump at such
conclusions?(BTW I don't)I just expressed my opinion on "overgramarrized" (word
used on purpose)students-AND I DO TEACH GRAMMAR!!!!!!!!but I always bear in
mind WHY I AM DOING THIS!!!!
and what do You mean by "a teacher is evaluated after his/her students
skills" So what? If you are soooo smart at methodology stuff you must have
heard of the fact that mistakes are a sign of development as it means that
rules became internalised by a S.Never heard of it????Maybe you should develop
a bit,attend some workshops,seminars OR YOU ARE TOOOOOO EXPERIENCED AND KNOW
EVERYTHING?

to mouchi

[Gość: together]

In this topic I do value the opinions expressed by erwas.
Solid and logical.
Mouchi is this topic's asshole as every topic have one.
Seams to know all. Or am I wrong.

The focus in Enlish languge schools in Poland is on vocabulary and grammar.
Students have hard time understanding anything. They can say things. Many
things. The only problem is they don't understand anything coming at them.
Try to buy a pack of Marlboros in New York. Not a chance.
You'll not understand the salesman's question as there are 9 different kinds of
Marlboros. So, which one do you want?
Schools totally neglect conversation.
Maybe they should take a look how it is done in Belgium.
My 10 years old nephew, whose native language now is flemish, can actually hold
a conversation in English after just two years of learning. The simple one.
Notwithstanding.
together

[Gość: mysia2000]

thank you together-mouchi can be described by 3 expressions using word "ass "-
smart ass, pain in the ass,and...the one you used.
I agree that Ss at polish schools don't speak at all- my student at private
classes- last class of high school,really smart at grammmar(in fact I taught
him proficiency grammar),he admitted that they NEVER had speaking activities
(his speaking skills were good ,however,maybe beacause he attended some courses
at lgschools)Anyway- speaking is "a waste of time" for most teachers at public
schools- and this is not a myth-I know dozens of examples.but on the other hand
our system of testing-namely tertiary education entrance exams promote such
approach to teaching as they test grammar and vocabulary.

[mouchi]

Gość portalu: mysia2000 napisał(a):

> thank you together-mouchi can be described by 3 expressions using word "ass "-
> smart ass, pain in the ass,and...the one you used.
.........thanks a lot but my nick is still mouchi........
> I agree that Ss at polish schools don't speak at all- my student at private
> classes- last class of high school,really smart at grammmar(in fact I taught
> him proficiency grammar),he admitted that they NEVER had speaking activities
> (his speaking skills were good ,however,maybe beacause he attended some
courses
>
> at lgschools)Anyway- speaking is "a waste of time" for most teachers at
public
> schools- and this is not a myth-I know dozens of examples.
.........true. maybe because it is easier to get a group of 15 pupils do
excercises, read texts and answer the questions to the text, which is a
standard routine of public schools lessons. why? I don't know. system?

but on the other hand
>
> our system of testing-namely tertiary education entrance exams promote such
> approach to teaching as they test grammar and vocabulary.
.......it is impossible to separate grammar exercises and speaking practice
while teaching. I also used to have high school students at private lessons,
who desparately wanted to speak because at school they didn't have a chance.
but I also had students who hated grammar and did't work on it. one of such
students came back to me after a few years and asked to do grammar with him. he
realised that he is fluent but makes mistakes which are unacceptable if he
wants to be a reliable partner in business. (he set up his own company and
works with foreigners a lot).
so I am a pain in the ass if I hear that only one side (teaching grammar OR
only speaking skills) is absolutely right. there is no good speaking without
good theory knowledge.
wish you a nice day
your pain in the ass - Mouchi

to mouchi

[Gość: TOGETHER]

Finally good post from you.
Nice, coherent and to the point.
I like you much more when I see no sting.
Keep up good work.
bubus

[Gość: mouchi]

but I am a really nice creature.

[Gość: together]

I know that.
You must have had a bad hair day?

[mouchi]

absolutely not.
it just my way to heat up the discussion.

Good job!

[maggie7]

Mouchi, you sure did a good job trying to heat up the discussion. I like it. :o)
And some of my observations and opinions, if you will...

I get the impression, that a lot of you guys, expect your teachers to be
geniuses. But nobody knows everything, and everybody makes mistakes, and we
learn all the time. Listen, I am an EFL and ESL teacher, and the first thing I
tell my students is to understand that I AM A HUMAN AND I DO MAKE MISTAKES AND
I DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING. I tell them that I am a leader to guide them into the
right direction, I am a source to help them answer their questions, and I am
also a researcher constantly looking for answers, and constantly learning. If I
make a mistake or I don't know the answer, I don't hide it. I ask my students
to look for the solution together with me. Some people think it's stupid,
because I should KNOW everything, but others love it. So I guess your reaction
will be similar. Also think of CEOs and managers of companies and corporations,
do they always know everything? Do they always have the right answer? No, they
look for answers, they research, they have their teams to work with in order to
find the optimal solution. They serve as leaders, though, who possess the
necessary skills and strategies to make the process smooth and effective. I
personally think that you should start looking at teachers in a similar way.
Treat them as leaders, expect guidance from them and take advantage of the
knowledge
they have, and let them be humans, like you are...
Also understand one more thing - in order to learn something you need to study
it. No great teacher will put the knowledge into your head.

And a question for a debate:
who would you choose: wonderful teacher & good English skills vs. excellent
English and poor teaching skills? I would like to hear your answers.

Take care, Maggie :o)

English teaching or English learning?

[ozpol]

I would like to rise a few points.
I had experience of learning English in Poland and overseas.
In Poland – Uni., private lessons, group lessons and here in Australia evening
classes and it does not matter how good is teacher it is US who need to learn.
With the best techniques, mots skillful teacher you need to put afford to learn
and it is hard work.
I don’t believe that you can learn any language in class-room. You need have
life contact – movies, books, radio and street.
Good teacher is only for coaching to achieve good speed of learning, but it is
up to us to improve.

To Maggie

[Gość: kama]

Hi.
What`s the difference between "good Englisg skills" and "excellent English"?
Does it have to do anything with a degree.Be so kind and please cleare it out
for me so I`ll be happy to participate in the discussion.By the way, I totally
agree with your point of view and I`m certain that you make a great teacher.
Not only is it caused by your attitude but also by your English skills. What a
beautiful English you have.Congratulations.

[maggie7]

Hi Kama, thanks for your response.... you know what I meant by "good"
versus "excellent" English skills... the latter being higer on the scale...

next time I will try to me more precise :o)
take care, Maggie :o)

[mouchi]

maggie7 napisała:

> Mouchi, you sure did a good job trying to heat up the discussion. I like
it. :o
> )
> And some of my observations and opinions, if you will...
>
> I get the impression, that a lot of you guys, expect your teachers to be
> geniuses. But nobody knows everything, and everybody makes mistakes, and we
> learn all the time. Listen, I am an EFL and ESL teacher, and the first thing
I
> tell my students is to understand that I AM A HUMAN AND I DO MAKE MISTAKES
AND
> I DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING. I tell them that I am a leader to guide them into
the
>
> right direction, I am a source to help them answer their questions, and I am
> also a researcher constantly looking for answers, and constantly learning. If
I
>
> make a mistake or I don't know the answer, I don't hide it. I ask my students
> to look for the solution together with me. Some people think it's stupid,
> because I should KNOW everything, but others love it. So I guess your
reaction
> will be similar. Also think of CEOs and managers of companies and
corporations,
>
> do they always know everything? Do they always have the right answer? No,
they
> look for answers, they research, they have their teams to work with in order
to
>
> find the optimal solution. They serve as leaders, though, who possess the
> necessary skills and strategies to make the process smooth and effective. I
> personally think that you should start looking at teachers in a similar way.
> Treat them as leaders, expect guidance from them and take advantage of the
> knowledge
> they have, and let them be humans, like you are...
> Also understand one more thing - in order to learn something you need to
study
>
> it. No great teacher will put the knowledge into your head.
>
> And a question for a debate:
> who would you choose: wonderful teacher & good English skills vs. excellent
> English and poor teaching skills? I would like to hear your answers.
>
> Take care, Maggie :o)

thanks, "soul sister".
you put it perfectly. I used to have one of the first classes with my students
teaching them how to use a dictionary as I am not a "walking dictionary",
sometimes I had to prove that nobody is perfect and even Poles do not know ALL
Polish words.
by the way I remember once, as a student, that we had a "wonderful" American
teacher (it was at Warsaw University). the guy was really nice and smart,
but.... we asked him for a word in English that we explained quite elaborately,
if I may say so, and ... nothing. he couldn't say anything. finally someone
remembered the word and he was very surprised because he didn't know it! the
word was "embezzlement", nice, isn't it.

have a nice day

[maggie7]

dear "brother"

good point! We are not walking dictionaries... neither are native speakers :o)
oh they are not...

by the way, seems like we studied in the same building, maybe even on the same
floor :o)

see you around, Maggie

[Gość: Aquarious]

Public schools are poor. They really suck. Teachers are OK but all this school system in Poland is pointless. If not privet lessons I would have naver learnt English.
Peace out!

[Gość: bin2]

I am sure it depends all what money teachers get.
In a good country where care for their citizens is among the first preferance,
the situation is very positive towards teaching staff. I hope you understand
what I mean.
Furthermore there are a lot of things to discuss but I am out of time now.
If you wish to continue the topic in future, I appreciate.

[Gość: kama]

I hope you are not a teacher `cause the results would be disastrous.On the
other hand, I believe that students majoring in english language studies may
teach even before graduating ;moreover, they can be pretty good at doing so.
It`s also unfair to generalize because individual abilities vary.However, I
don`t understand how is that possible that people not connected with english
language departments find jobs at schools.Strange as it is, it is the reality
(and I`m not trying to be offensive).
To the point, my answer is: "No, the majority of teachers is not qualified well
enough to meet the needs and expectations of the requirements."

[mouchi]

Gość portalu: kama napisał(a):

> I hope you are not a teacher `cause the results would be disastrous.On the
> other hand, I believe that students majoring in english language studies may
> teach even before graduating ;moreover, they can be pretty good at doing so.
> It`s also unfair to generalize because individual abilities vary.However, I
> don`t understand how is that possible that people not connected with english
> language departments find jobs at schools.Strange as it is, it is the reality
> (and I`m not trying to be offensive).
> To the point, my answer is: "No, the majority of teachers is not qualified
well
>
> enough to meet the needs and expectations of the requirements."


as well as those who claim they are teachers because they finished 3-week
course in London and they teach. I had students who previously had been taught
by such cheaters. tragedy!

[Gość: mysia2000]

just a few words more concerning "walking dictionaries" - my collegue starts
her first class asking students to give them meaning of Polish words but very
complicated ones - such as "filipika" ect. if they don't know (and they don't
know) she tells them - "see, nobody knows everything even in their own native
language" - what do you think of this method?
I know that so many teachers in public schools suck but don't you think that
reform in education system will change anything? the requirements are quite
high...but those who were employed before reform can't be fired as there is a
shortage of teachers in some places....

[kociamama]

Gość portalu: kama napisał(a):

>.
> It`s also unfair to generalize because individual abilities vary.However, I
> don`t understand how is that possible that people not connected with english
> language departments find jobs at schools.Strange as it is, it is the
reality

As ya said individual abilities vary. So why should we ban people "not
connected with English language department" from schools? I think that the
diploma or lack of it is not the reliable critirion. A sample lesson can
indicate if the given person will amke a good teacher, has the right accent, a
good command of English and teaching skills or talent. Unfortunately in
practice not evry single university/college leaver is cut out for being a
teacher and has appropriate language proficiency.

[jrzy]

I agree! Not everyone can be a good teacher - Polish or native speaker.

[oddball]

An interesting thread with too many generalisations.

As with everything you have good and bad.

There are bad Polish teachers, and good ones.

Just as there are good natve speaking teachers, and bad ones.

At the end of the day it's down to the student to learn.

[Gość: kociamama]

What about native speakers teaching English??? Are they qualified enough? They
are usually people who never fully learnt another language, or never learnt it
at all. Rarely do they have a vague idea what might be of problem to the
POles, as it would be tremendously comlicated for them to have a good command
or at least to learn basic skills in such a difficult language.
Moreover, they seem to think that we, as foreigners will never gain
proficiency in their language, so following the rules of methodology they
don't correct our mistakes in speaking as long as they are understandable.
I opt for Polish teachers.

[jrzy]

It's not necessary to know Polish (or any first language) to teach another
language.

[magbak]

There are many Polish teachers teaching with only FCE, and I'm sorry that just
isn't good enough.

Unless you're a complete beginner Native speaking teachers are better every
time. That's why in rich countries like those in the middle east (Saudi Arabia
etc.) all the teachers at high levels are from England or the USA. ONLY the
lowest level work is done by teachers from those countries.

[Gość: Prezes]

magbak napisała:

> There are many Polish teachers teaching with only FCE,
and I'm sorry that just
> isn't good enough.
>
> Unless you're a complete beginner Native speaking
teachers are better every
> time.

You are right, provided that they are _teachers_
not just native speakers of English.
I agree with kociamama, that just being
a native speaker is not good enough to teach other people.


>That's why in rich countries like those in the middle
east (Saudi Arabia
> etc.) all the teachers at high levels are from England
or the USA. ONLY the
> lowest level work is done by teachers from those countries.

[magbak]

I agree with your point a "teacher" should be a teacher! Actually globally
Poland is one of the few countries that accepts native speakers with no
qualifications at all. Many of the ones I have met are of course well
qualified, but, others have come because they want to see abit of the world
before settling down to a real job in England or the USA. These teachers are
best avoided.

If your teacher is a well educated and qualified teacher I'd choose him every
time over a Polish teacher. But the ones who worked as hairdressers or such in
English speaking countries shouldn't be teaching here at all!

[eliz123]

Do you know any completely unqualified native speakers working as teachers?

[kociamama]

eliz123 napisała:

> Do you know any completely unqualified native speakers working as teachers?

I used to work with some native speakers in a private school. One American
lady later resigned from her job to work on cruiseships as a waiter later on.
Teachers/educated people don't consider it such a lucrative post as we in
Poland, so it means something.
Another guy, who also teaches in a public highschool conducted a loesson in
such a way, that I can't imagine that any of the students could benefit from
it. He was completely unprepared with no improvizing skills. Told the Ss to
read out the text and didn't even bother to correct their mistakes. The lesson
was extremely boring with no educational value.

[nyo]

kociamama napisała:

> I used to work with some native speakers in a private school. One American
> lady later resigned from her job to work on cruiseships as a waiter later on.
In private schools the main concern is making money. So your story about the
American waiter (sic) - waitress - could be true.

> Teachers/educated people don't consider it such a lucrative post as we in
> Poland, so it means something.

Is everyone only intersted in money!?!

> Another guy, who also teaches in a public highschool conducted a loesson in
> such a way, that I can't imagine that any of the students could benefit from
> it. He was completely unprepared with no improvizing skills. Told the Ss to
> read out the text and didn't even bother to correct their mistakes. The
lesson
> was extremely boring with no educational value.

I'd say reading your posts that you are jealous of native speakers!

[Gość: kociamama]

What do you mean jealous of native speakers??? That's the most absurd argument
to come up with!!!

[kociamama]

And this is the worst thing possible, that the worst teachers teach the lowest
levels!!! Beginners require best teachers in order not to develop bad language
habits.
Referring to teachers with FCE only... Well, you're right in Poland it still
happens, but alterations are being implemented gradually to make the teaching
English process more professional.
However, native speakers don't guarantee high quality. they may be simply
frustrated people unable to find a job in their own country who,possibly take
a qiuck course on methodology, but not necessarily. So it may happen that
virtually illiterate people with no idea how to teach and little knowledge
more appreciaTED than Polish professionals.

[jrzy]

If you're interested in qualifications - check them!

The countries where most native speakers (Australia, USA, UK) come from don't
have a problem with unemployment. The unemployment rate is under 5%. So people
without a job there have no reason to come here and work for next to nothing!

As the original post suggests it's Polish teachers who are under qualified.

Unfortunately the level of education for Polish teachers is not high.

[Gość: Prezes]

jrzy napisał(a):

> If you're interested in qualifications - check them!
>
> The countries where most native speakers (Australia,
USA, UK) come from don't
> have a problem with unemployment. The unemployment rate
is under 5%. So people
> without a job there have no reason to come here and
work for next to nothing!
>

Of course, money is not the reason for most of them
to come to Poland. I bet, quite often they have
Polish spouses and their employment opportunities
in Poland are rather limited.
Teaching English seems to be the easiest choice.
Unfortunately, the mere fact of being a native speaker
of any language does not qualify you to teach it.

> As the original post suggests it's Polish teachers who
are under qualified.
>
> Unfortunately the level of education for Polish
teachers is not high.

That is probably true as well.
The conclusion is: English teachers (native or otherwise)
in Poland suck !

(I apologize those of you, who do not suck.)

[jamesbond007]

short answer - no.