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On Governance, Reign and Breams

17.02.04, 03:19

On Governance, Reign and Breams - the Vilification of Polonia


No one with a grown-up experience of life in Poland under the Communist rule
should have the slightest difficulty in recognising propaganda techniques
used today to demonise the global Polish diaspora, collectively known as
Polonia. We had once known this surreal, Orwellian newspeak quite well, as a
so-called "propaganda of success", at its peak in the late 1970's. No
Communist apparatchik would be without it then, just as no Polish politician
would now, for this crude mixture of agitprop, stick and carrot delivers
unprecedented social control.

The political class of today's Poland has no personal experience of state
power exercised in any way, shape or form other than the pre-1989 Communist
fetish of social control. To them, social control is what prevents the sky
from falling down. Accordingly, they firmly believe it is the control that
defines the state, and not the other way round. Strong strings must be
attached to subjects, and state puppet masters must pull them as they see
fit, and there is no other way about it.

The notion of responsible exercise of power that spawned the checks and
balances of Anglo-Saxon democracies is a culturally allien invention,
incomprehensible to Polish politicians. The enjoyment of holding power in
Poland is the enjoyment of unfettered power.

Neither the politicos nor the mind managers of Poland have ever mastered the
true meaning of a difference between governance and reign. To them, it has
been obvious since the time they ruled the kindergarten yard, that governance
means giving orders and enforcing compliance; there is nothing more to it and
there is no other way.

The reign masquerading as governance of Poland involves manipulation of state
powers to compel individual behaviour of subjects for personal benefit of the
rulers. Reaching any defined goals is not the principal objective of the
reign. Its principal aim, and principal pleasure, is to repeatedly
demonstrate the extent of subordination of the ruled to the rulers, mainly by
devising and enforcing laws and regulations intricate to the point of baroque
in their micro-management of everything. Naturally, the rulers, their
friends, business partners and relatives need not comply. This results in
construction of gigantic and exquisite Potemkin villages of corruption,
presented for foreign consumption as cornerstones of democracy.

To convince the Polish electorate they are winners in ongoing transformation
from Communism, and beneficiaries of the wise and kind rule of a sage
President of All Poles, a reference standard of loser must be created. Every
last Pole in Poland must know what a loser is, before he or she can feel a
morally superior winner. An image of a miserable emigré, holed up like a rat
in faraway ghettoes of poverty, eking out a miserable existence through
backbreaking manual labour, is subtly promoted in order to create the
standard against which just about any excess of Poland's robber barons will
appear a success. To deal with professionals in the diaspora, an image of a
greedy renegade, unwilling to support the beloved Motherland, will do just as
nicely.

Casting members of the diaspora as either rats or renegade Scrooges improves
the Polish domestic electorate's self-esteem no end. Obviously, if the
diaspora outside Poland are sewer rats or traitors, then those in Poland must
necessarily be patriotic Poles and economic tigers of New Europe, must they
not? Well, if not tigers, at least smart weasels in shiny coats.

However, when the primary premise is deliberately faulty, the conclusion
derived from it must inevitably fail. In reality, the Poles in Poland are in
the same rat race as those abroad held out to them as dead end, bottom-layer
losers; except the Polish domestic version of the race is much tougher, with
more stick and less cheese. The much reviled 'rat Poles' of Greenpoint, NY,
are about as representative of the Polish diaspora as dumpster scavengers of
Warsaw are of Poland.

The secondary objective of diaspora vilification is the propaganda run-up to
a forthcoming experiment in taxation without representation. Everybody in
Poland knows by now that the rats have had it too good for too long. And
every Pole in the West can well guess that Poland's appetite for free cash,
with no strings attached, is exactly the same it has always been - unlimited.

A social mindset is being created in Poland that may eventually allow a
declaration, at an as yet undetermined point in the future, that any and all
individuals of Polish birth of origin, irrespective of their place of
residence or acquired nationality, their children, heirs and successors, all
owe their dues to the distant Motherland. A 10% global tithe would go a long
way towards provision of comforts to 600 thousand state officials, members of
the byzantine local government, Young Communists League apparatchiks struck
by the revelation of social democracy in their middle age, and jackbooted
nationalist populists, decidedly brownish going on deeper and deeper black in
their hue of shirts.

Such a development would see many dancing in the streets of Poland. The
economic tigers of New Europe (20% unemployment at the last count) truly
adore the taste of free cash, courtesy of foreign suckers. The Polish modern
slang for sucker is "leszcz", bream. Bream is a species of fat, tasty, and
exceptionally stupid freshwater fish. Honest work, just reward and personal
sacrifice do not taste nearly as sweet in Poland as a good bream does.

The prospect of turning the most or the whole of the Polish diaspora against
Poland by such a move is of no consequence to the political class. There will
be enough breams forced to pay by tugging the emotional strings tying them
to ancestral graves and ailing old parents in Poland to make the whole thing
profitable.

Altogether, my mood at all this is one of pervasive sadness.

The contours of old Communist Poland remain in plain view under a hastily
applied thin veneer of democracy. The Polish President, an enthusiastic
Communist Party apparatchik until the day his Party sank from under him,
declares his happiness with "OUR decision to fight Communism". My friends
left behind are increasingly inclined to accept I must have become a rat,
since they all know that my business skills are insufficient for a rich
renegade.

And tertium non datur.



© Stary Wiarus 2004
Unlimited copying and distribution are allowed, with attribution to the
source.

Obserwuj wątek
    • starypierdola The source 17.02.04, 03:38
      >>with attribution to the source<<

      What do you mean??
      BTW nice piece.
      SP
      • luiza-w-ogrodzie The source - elementary, my dear Watson 17.02.04, 03:43
        SW oczywiscie. Tylko jak to przetlumaczyc na angielski?
        • starywiarus Re: The source - elementary, my dear Watson 17.02.04, 03:47
          luiza-w-ogrodzie napisała:

          > SW oczywiscie. Tylko jak to przetlumaczyc na angielski?

          Nie tlumaczyc.
          "© Stary Wiarus 2004" jest zrozumiale miedzynarodowo.
          • Gość: BeKa Re: The source - elementary, my dear Watson IP: *.dip.t-dialin.net 17.02.04, 20:06
            A może by tak "Łold Fajful"?
      • starywiarus Re: The source 17.02.04, 03:46
        1. I mean you can freely re-publish, copy, disseminate, print, broadcast, or
        tatoo this text on your own or anybody elses ...., in a colour of your choice,
        as long as you include “© Stary Wiarus 2004” and the source from which you
        are copying from (in this case Forum Polonia “Gazety Wyborczej”wink.

        2. Thanks.

        • starypierdola Re: The source 17.02.04, 03:53
          ACKNOWLEDGEMENT is the proper word, I suppose.... At least in Kalgoorlie.
          SP
          • starywiarus Re: The source 17.02.04, 03:55
            starypierdola napisał:

            > ACKNOWLEDGEMENT is the proper word, I suppose.... At least in Kalgoorlie.
            > SP


            At least in Hay St. smile
            • starypierdola Re: The source 17.02.04, 03:57
              OK. Pojde dzis sprawdzic i zbadac sytuacje ...
              SP
    • Gość: joanna stokrotne dzieki IP: 5.5D* / *.cg.shawcable.net 17.02.04, 04:44
      za obydwie wersje. przykro mi tylko ze twe "dziela wybrane" sa zczepione w moim
      binder metalowymi ringami. jakbys cos kiedys wydal(publish) w twardej okladce
      jestem w stanie zaplacic kazda cene. z reszta widze ze nie tylko ja. a english
      version rozpowszechniam wsrod znajomych (fanclub sie powieksza) no i oczywiscie
      pozniej dla dzieci. my cudous to you, starywiarus!!!!
      • syfilis Re: stokrotne dzieki - kudos. 17.02.04, 07:47
        Gość portalu: joanna napisał(a):

        " cudous"

        Kudos. Piszesz zle w obu jezykach?
        Staraj sie pisac tylko w jednym.
        • Gość: joanna : )) IP: 5.5D* / *.cg.shawcable.net 17.02.04, 08:25
          syfilis napisała:

          Piszesz zle w obu jezykach?

          blad. wyglada na to ze pisze zle w 3. ktos mi tu kiedys przywlail za jakis blad
          po niemiecku.

          > Staraj sie pisac tylko w jednym.

          why? what would be the point of that? zle w jednym, dwuch, czy trzech to still
          zle, nie?

          jakos tak mi sie wydaje ze nie za to mi tu przywaliles, ale chyba bardziej za
          wiarusa ktory dostal moje kudos (haven't checked the dictionary yet but i'm
          assuming that you're right, after all to err is not human, is it?) czy inne tam
          personalne niepowodzenia. good nite syfilis. c u b 4 u d k.

          i uciekaj szybko bos sie chyba z gupim przez sciane macal jak myslisz ze mnie
          tym zniechecisz, hehehe.


          • syfilis :)))))) - kudos. 17.02.04, 08:53

            Witaj,
            nie doszukuj sie innej intencji niz byla zamierzona.
            Poprawilem Twoj blad.
            Patrzac na to pisanie - stylistyczne/ortograficzne - badziewie na forum
            smiesza mnie ludzie przeplatajacy oba jezyki - oba kiepskie.
            Zwracaj uwage na to co piszesz. Uzywaj slow ktorych pisownie znasz.
            Pozdrowionka,
            syfilis.
            • Gość: joanna syfi_lisie IP: 5.5D* / *.cg.shawcable.net 17.02.04, 09:38
              a ja jednak mysle ze intencja jest jeszcze inna. you, buddy, get a kick out of
              humiliating others. guess what, i've been humiliated so many times on this
              forum i'm immune to little texts bez polotu tak jak twoje. a jak naprawde cie
              cos smieszy to nie zwracaj uwagi i nie wymagaj poprawy tylko have your fun and
              keep lafing.

              syfilis napisała:

              >Uzywaj slow ktorych pisownie znasz.

              uzywam slow ktorych znaczenie znam. a przynajmniej sie staram. a jak czasem cos
              nie wyjdzie to taf. i'm still balling, though. a czy twojemu w polsce
              wyuczonemu mozdzkowi to sie podoba czy nie nikogo tu nie obchodzi. pozdrowionka
              right back at you, buddy.
              • syfilis W dalszym ciagu... grafoman/ka. 17.02.04, 10:37

                Hi,
                w dalszym ciagu piszesz ch.jowo, niechlujnie i z zauwazalnym wysilkiem.
                Przez analogie pewnie wiekszosc spraw tak Tobie idzie grafomanko/nie.
                Pozdr.
                • Gość: Kasia Re: W dalszym ciagu... grafoman/ka. IP: *.oc.oc.cox.net 17.02.04, 17:00
                  Najwyrazniej tym tekstem chciala zakryc wstyd jaki sobie zrobila piszac 'cudous'
                  Taki blad wyraznie swiadczy ze ktos nie zostal wyksztalcony w tutejszych
                  szkolach a angielski zna z kursow ESL.
                  • Gość: joanna co ci IP: 5.5D* / *.cg.shawcable.net 17.02.04, 20:36
                    kurwa idioto polamany esl przeszkadza. jasne ze chodzilam na esl jak tu
                    przyjechalam. ja sie unfortunately tu nie urodzilam. bog mnie pokaral tak jak
                    ciebie i urodzilam sie w zaciemnionej polsce to my polish parents. posluchaj co
                    ty pierdolisz:

                    > Taki blad wyraznie swiadczy ze ktos nie zostal wyksztalcony w tutejszych
                    > szkolach a angielski zna z kursow ESL.

                    a kursy esl gdzie sa idioto w tamtejszych szkolach? jesli syfi lis bylby taki
                    obiektywny zaraz by ci tu dopierdolil. ale syfilis cos do mnie personalnie
                    chyba czuje, nie syfi lisie ; )) cudous to you tepy polaku osiedlony w pieknej
                    ameryce za logike w w/w zdaniu. a teraz wracaj na zbiorke gliniakow forumowych.
                    i nastepnym razem jak chcesz zebym ci po ludzku odpowiedziala zaloguj sie bo na
                    te ip moge cie tylko opierdolic.
                • Gość: joanna no nie wiem IP: 5.5D* / *.cg.shawcable.net 17.02.04, 20:18
                  jak ci pomoc. masz prawo nie lubic mojego stylu, czy spellingu. moze wiec nie
                  czytaj czy cus takiego. widzisz na public forum like this rozne dziadostwo
                  wchodzi. takze omijaj moje posty z daleka jesli cie tak raza. albo zalatw z
                  nocnamara zeby wypierdalali kazdego kto ma wedlug ciebie zly style czy spelling
                  i bedzie po klopocie. juz wiecej do ciebie nie pisze bo jestes bully i mi
                  dokuczasz. ale glupi nie jestes w odroznieniu do tego przykrego frustraty pod
                  spodem. ide mu cos powiedziec. take kerr.
                  • filipek.us Joaśka, pisz dla mnie! You make my every day :)n/t 17.02.04, 20:22

                  • filipek.us Wiązanka 17.02.04, 20:32
                    Osieckiej, bo to faworytka Wiarusa wink

                    Joasiu, zadedykuj e syfkowi, to się może ogonków tuman nauczy wink

                    a) osiecka.vip.interia.pl/mp3/mowilamzartem.mp3
                    b) osiecka.vip.interia.pl/mp3/dzisprawdziwych.mp3
                    c) osiecka.vip.interia.pl/mp3/okularnicy.mp3
                    d) osiecka.vip.interia.pl/mp3/malgoska.mp3
                    e) media.stereo.pl/mp3v40/117137/117137_02.mp3
                    f) media.stereo.pl/mp3v40/117140/117140_02.mp3
                    g) osiecka.vip.interia.pl/mp3/ksiezycfrajer.mp3

                    pzdr
                    • Gość: joanna filipek IP: 5.5D* / *.cg.shawcable.net 17.02.04, 20:46
                      you are my main man : )) oczywiscie e dedykuje syfkowi.
                  • Gość: joanna Re: no nie wiem IP: 5.5D* / *.cg.shawcable.net 17.02.04, 20:40
                    Gość portalu: joanna napisał(a):

                    przykrego frustraty pod spodem.

                    mialo byc u gory. filipek oczywiscie rocks my world : )
      • Gość: joanna sorry starywiarus IP: 5.5D* / *.cg.shawcable.net 17.02.04, 08:28
        ktos mi tu grzecznie zwrocil uwage ze pisze sie kudos, a nie cudous. no hurt
        feelings i'm sure : ))
    • lymeryk "rat Poles" & copy; Stary Wiarus 2004 17.02.04, 07:33
      ) No one with a grown-up experience of life in Poland under the Communist rule
      ) should have the slightest difficulty in recognising propaganda techniques
      ) used today to demonise the global Polish diaspora,
      i was born and grew up in communist Poland
      however, i have not noticed recently
      any systematic demonisation (???) of Polonia by political parties in Poland
      can you provide some prove of that? links?

      ) collectively known as
      ) Polonia. We had once known this surreal, Orwellian newspeak quite well, as a
      ) so-called "propaganda of success",
      wake up little fella "propaganda of success" was not invented nor it is
      applied right now in Poland, media in Poland are as critical of polish
      politicians and government as media in other democratic countries
      take the example of USA, where only now media is starting to be slightly
      critical of US gov treatment of Iraq's WMD and subsequent war

      ) at its peak in the late 1970's. No
      ) Communist apparatchik would be without it then, just as no Polish politician
      ) would now, for this crude mixture of agitprop, stick and carrot delivers
      ) unprecedented social control.
      obviously you know a lot about 1970's and "propaganda of success" i
      wonder how come?
      and how come that you got out of the country at the time
      that getting passport was impossible for anybody but apartchicks


      )
      ) The political class of today's Poland has no personal experience of state
      ) power exercised in any way, shape or form other than the pre-1989 Communist
      ) fetish of social control.
      what do you know obout political class of today's Poland?
      have you been to Poland lately? have you talked with politicians?
      what are your sources? other than your beloved tabloid "Super Express" ?

      ) To them, social control is what prevents the sky
      ) from falling down. Accordingly, they firmly believe it is the control that
      ) defines the state, and not the other way round. Strong strings must be
      ) attached to subjects, and state puppet masters must pull them as they see
      ) fit, and there is no other way about it.
      flaky statements without any supporting argument
      sounds like some kind of marxism vomits forcefully applied to the times that
      you don't understand

      )
      ) The notion of responsible exercise of power that spawned the checks and
      ) balances of Anglo-Saxon democracies is a culturally allien invention,
      it might be allien to your culture, it is certainly not alien to
      Poland that belongs to NATO and enters EU
      somehow your claims just don't stand a chance with well known facts!
      i wonder what is driving you?

      ) incomprehensible to Polish politicians. The enjoyment of holding power in
      ) Poland is the enjoyment of unfettered power.
      are you trying to tell everybody that politicians in all countries with
      the exception of Poland are angels without any hidden agenda?
      your feeble intelectual considerations are nothing else but lightly veiled
      demonisation of polish political life
      what is really interesting that you don't even differentiate between different
      political parties and movements, for you it is enough that they
      are polish (!) politicians to indiscrimnately and hatefuly spit on them
      why to you hate Poland, polish culture and people, and specially polish
      politicians?
      do you have any political ambitions of yourself
      why don't you try to run for a political office and let see how many votes you
      will get?

      )
      ) Neither the politicos nor the mind managers of Poland have ever mastered the
      ) true meaning of a difference between governance and reign. To them, it has
      ) been obvious since the time they ruled the kindergarten yard, that governance
      ) means giving orders and enforcing compliance; there is nothing more to it and
      ) there is no other way.
      wow, you must be practising essay writing you sound so agitated and pathetic
      what do you mean of "other way" is it done differently in Australia?
      what has Australia done to Aboriginals boat people?
      could you explain how are australian politicians and police handling Redfern?


      )
      ) The reign masquerading as governance of Poland involves manipulation of state
      ) powers to compel individual behaviour of subjects for personal benefit of the
      ) rulers. Reaching any defined goals is not the principal objective of the
      ) reign. Its principal aim, and principal pleasure, is to repeatedly
      ) demonstrate the extent of subordination of the ruled to the rulers, mainly by
      ) devising and enforcing laws and regulations intricate to the point of baroque
      ) in their micro-management of everything. Naturally, the rulers, their
      ) friends, business partners and relatives need not comply. This results in
      ) construction of gigantic and exquisite Potemkin villages of corruption,
      ) presented for foreign consumption as cornerstones of democracy.
      )
      ) To convince the Polish electorate they are winners in ongoing transformation
      ) from Communism, and beneficiaries of the wise and kind rule of a sage
      ) President of All Poles, a reference standard of loser must be created. Every
      ) last Pole in Poland must know what a loser is, before he or she can feel a
      ) morally superior winner. An image of a miserable emigré, holed up like a rat
      ) in faraway ghettoes of poverty, eking out a miserable existence through
      ) backbreaking manual labour, is subtly promoted in order to create the
      ) standard against which just about any excess of Poland's robber barons will
      ) appear a success. To deal with professionals in the diaspora, an image of a
      ) greedy renegade, unwilling to support the beloved Motherland, will do just as
      ) nicely.
      )
      (sorry but i must skip most of your ranting due to lack of time)


      ) Casting members of the diaspora as either rats or renegade Scrooges improves
      ) the Polish domestic electorate's self-esteem no end. Obviously, if the
      ) diaspora outside Poland are sewer rats or traitors, then those in Poland must
      ) necessarily be patriotic Poles and economic tigers of New Europe, must they
      ) not? Well, if not tigers, at least smart weasels in shiny coats.
      )
      ) However, when the primary premise is deliberately faulty, the conclusion
      ) derived from it must inevitably fail. In reality, the Poles in Poland are in
      ) the same rat race as those abroad held out to them as dead end, bottom-layer
      ) losers; except the Polish domestic version of the race is much tougher, with
      ) more stick and less cheese. The much reviled 'rat Poles' of Greenpoint, NY,
      ) are about as representative of the Polish diaspora as dumpster scavengers of
      ) Warsaw are of Poland.
      you are a great "humanist" but only your own sick and hateful mind
      you obviously draw great pleasure from all these derogatory animalistic
      comparisons
      this is your hymn that you must be repeating through your clenched teeth over
      and over again 'rat Poles' 'rat Poles' 'rat Poles'
      this term defines the best your "philosophy", philosphy of hate

      )
      ) The secondary objective of diaspora vilification is the propaganda run-up to
      ) a forthcoming experiment in taxation without representation. Everybody in
      ) Poland knows by now that the rats have had it too good for too long. And
      ) every Pole in the West can well guess that Poland's appetite for free cash,
      ) with no strings attached, is exactly the same it has always been - unlimited.
      )
      ) A social mindset is being created in Poland that may eventually allow a
      ) declaration, at an as yet undetermined point in the future, that any and all
      ) individuals of Polish birth of origin, irrespective of their place of
      ) residence or acquired nationality, their children, heirs and successors, all
      ) owe their dues to the distant Motherland. A 10% global tithe would go a long
      ) way towards provision of comforts to 600 thousand state officials, members of
      ) the byzantine local government, Young Communists League apparatchiks struck
      ) by the revelation of social democracy in their middle
      • wars6 Bravo, Lymeryk! 17.02.04, 10:47
        Stylistycznie zgrabnie napisany artykulik Wiarusa to nic innego jak sztuka dla
        sztuki. Duzo bla bla, ale ani cienia analizy. Typowy wywtor ekstremistycznej
        jazni, gdzie biale jest snieznobiale a czarne diabelsko czarne.

        Chetnie przyczytam probke opinii Wiarusa na temat aktualnych problemow w
        Australii.


        • Gość: Kasia Re: Bravo, Lymeryk! IP: *.oc.oc.cox.net 17.02.04, 16:49
          Zgrabna odpowiedz Lymeryk.
          But totally pointless, he won't unterstand a thing.
          His hate is way to big.
          • Gość: ignoratio elenchi Re: zapraszam do tanga Meksykaninie IP: *.dyn.optonline.net 20.02.04, 00:39
            forum.gazeta.pl/forum/72,2.html?f=44&w=10828714&a=10877357
            on the second thought your English is too poor for that smile))
          • filipek.us dekonspiracja 22.02.04, 00:39
            Gość portalu: Kasia napisał(a):

            > Zgrabna odpowiedz Lymeryk.
            > But totally pointless, he won't unterstand a thing.
            > His hate is way to big.

            Are you saying that wars6 and lymeryk are the nicks of the same person?
      • starywiarus A & & #35 8220;szczuropolacy& & #35 8221; to i tak patent 17.02.04, 13:40
        lymeryk napisał:

        > this is your hymn that you must be repeating through your clenched teeth over
        > and over again 'rat Poles' 'rat Poles' 'rat Poles'
        > this term defines the best your "philosophy", philosphy of hate

        A “szczuropolacy” to i tak patent Redlińskiego, wieszcza i filozofa jak
        najbardziej krajowego, zamieszkałego aktualnie pod krajowym niebem, który ten
        termin wynalazł na określenie Polonii właśnie. Przy ogólnej aklamacjo rodaków
        krajowych.

        Więcej czytać, mniej chlać na służbie!
        • starywiarus Winno być: Szczuropolacy to patent Redlińskiego... 17.02.04, 13:44
          lymeryk napisał:

          > this is your hymn that you must be repeating through your clenched teeth over
          > and over again 'rat Poles' 'rat Poles' 'rat Poles'
          > this term defines the best your "philosophy", philosphy of hate

          A “szczuropolacy” to i tak patent Redlińskiego, wieszcza i filozofa jak
          najbardziej krajowego, zamieszkałego aktualnie pod krajowym niebem, który ten
          termin wynalazł na określenie Polonii właśnie. Przy ogólnej aklamacjo rodaków
          krajowych.

          Więcej czytać, mniej chlać na służbie!
      • starywiarus Do you mean "anthem" when you write "hymn"? 17.02.04, 14:26
        lymeryk napisał:

        > this is your hymn that you must be repeating through your clenched teeth over
        > and over again

        Sorry, noticed this gem only now.

        > this is your hymn

        Do you mean "anthem" when you write "hymn"?
        "Hymn" in English is strictly religious, and the original post had zero
        religious content. Back to the Spółdzielnia Pracy "Lingwista", I'm afraid.
        Arguing in the language you do not know well you are actually doing your case a
        major disservice - as expected.
        • lymeryk long and whining essays 17.02.04, 20:20
          > Sorry, noticed this gem only now.
          no problem, i am very patient, and somehow i knew you will come back
          with this kind of trivial inconsequential problems,
          i should ask you: what took you so long?
          btw, if this is a gem for you than your life must be truly pitiful

          and next time, if you write another of your whining essays than try to keep it
          shorter or divide into parts, this time about 50% of my reply got cut off by
          the dark forces of GW

          have a nice day
          • filipek.us limeryk does it at such a lame level 18.02.04, 21:46
            > koszalek.opalek3 napisała:
            >
            > § 1
            > > i was born and grew up in communist Poland
            > > however, i have not noticed recently
            > > any systematic demonisation (???) of Polonia by political parties in Polan
            > d
            > > can you provide some prove of that? links?
            > >
            > § 2
            > > wake up little fella "propaganda of success" was not invented nor it is
            > > applied right now in Poland, media in Poland are as critical of polish
            > > politicians and government as media in other democratic countries
            > > take the example of USA, where only now media is starting to be slightly
            > > critical of US gov treatment of Iraq's WMD and subsequent war
            > >
            > § 3
            > > obviously you know a lot about 1970's and "propaganda of success" i
            > > wonder how come?
            > > and how come that you got out of the country at the time
            > > that getting passport was impossible for anybody but apartchicks
            > >
            > >
            > § 4
            > > what do you know obout political class of today's Poland?
            > > have you been to Poland lately? have you talked with politicians?
            > > what are your sources? other than your beloved tabloid "Super Express" ?
            > >
            > § 5
            > > flaky statements without any supporting argument
            > > sounds like some kind of marxism vomits forcefully applied to the times th
            > at
            > > you don't understand
            > >
            > § 6
            > > it might be allien to your culture, it is certainly not alien to
            > > Poland that belongs to NATO and enters EU
            > > somehow your claims just don't stand a chance with well known facts!
            > > i wonder what is driving you?
            > >
            > § 7
            > > are you trying to tell everybody that politicians in all countries with
            > > the exception of Poland are angels without any hidden agenda?
            > > your feeble intelectual considerations are nothing else but lightly veiled
            > > demonisation of polish political life
            > > what is really interesting that you don't even differentiate between diffe
            > rent
            > > political parties and movements, for you it is enough that they
            > > are polish (!) politicians to indiscrimnately and hatefuly spit on them
            > > why to you hate Poland, polish culture and people, and specially polish
            > > politicians?
            > > do you have any political ambitions of yourself
            > > why don't you try to run for a political office and let see how many votes
            > you
            > > will get?
            > >
            > § 8
            > > wow, you must be practising essay writing you sound so agitated and pathet
            > ic
            > > what do you mean of "other way" is it done differently in Australia?
            > > what has Australia done to Aboriginals boat people?
            > > could you explain how are australian politicians and police handling Redfe
            > rn?
            > >
            > >
            > § 9
            > > (sorry but i must skip most of your ranting due to lack of time)
            > >
            > >
            > § 10
            > > you are a great "humanist" but only your own sick and hateful mind
            > > you obviously draw great pleasure from all these derogatory animalistic
            > > comparisons
            > > this is your hymn that you must be repeating through your clenched teeth o
            > ver
            > > and over again 'rat Poles' 'rat Poles' 'rat Poles'
            > > this term defines the best your "philosophy", philosphy of hate
            > >
            >
            > Well, if it has anything to do with any philosophy (which it hasn't wink then
            it
            > would be philosophy of Schopenhauer - especially his 38 rules of winning any
            > argument at any time by any means he he he
            > Unfortunately limeryk does it at such a lame level that it does not pay to
            > refute any of his "points"
            > he he he
            > pieśń
      • Gość: Чекист Brawo Mośka IP: *.dyn.optonline.net 20.02.04, 00:21
        По улицам Слона водили,
        Как видно напоказ -
        Известно, что Слоны в диковинку у нас -
        Так за Слоном толпы зевак ходили.
        Отколе ни возьмись, навстречу Моська им.
        Увидевши Слона, ну на него метаться,
        И лаять, и визжать, и рваться,
        Ну, так и лезет в драку с ним.
        "Соседка, перестань срамиться,-
        Ей шавка говорит,- тебе ль с Слоном возиться?
        Смотри, уж ты хрипишь, а он себе идет
        Вперед
        И лаю твоего совсем не примечает".-
        "Эх, эх! - ей Моська отвечает,-
        Вот то-то мне и духу придает,
        Что я, совсем без драки,
        Могу попасть в большие забияки.
        Пускай же говорят собаки:
        "Ай, Моська! знать она сильна,
        Что лает на Слона!"

        Заслуженный чекист МГБ
    • starywiarus Lymeryk 17.02.04, 13:33
      Maleńki i zbłąkany misiu, ja ci ani nic nie muszę udowadniać, ani się
      ustosunkowywać do problemów zastępczych, na które chciałbyś skierować dyskusję.
      Nie mam zamiaru także rzucać się w dyskusję z Tobą na temat: “A w
      Ameryce/Australii Murzynów/Aborygenów biją”

      Nie podoba się, to czytaj Trybunę, tam brak nieprzyjemności oraz dostatek
      ekscytujacych polemik. A jak cię temat albo jego ujęcie w moim wykonaniu wk-----
      ją, to i dobrze, boś jak widać oberwał gdzie boli.

      Z przyczyn humanitarnych mogę ci natomiast napisać limeryk:

      Żył raz sobie funkcjonariusz na Bermudach
      Który czekał, aż Polonia pomnik mu da
      Kiedy stało się to
      Jęknął tylko: o!
      Cóż to właściwie za straszliwa nuda!
    • starywiarus Brawo Wars6! 17.02.04, 13:35
      Napisz sam coś stylistycznie zgrabnego, to wtedy może pogadamy.
      Z Tobą chyba też się nie rzucę w dyskusję na temat: “A w Ameryce/Australii
      Murzynów/Aborygenów biją”. Zbyt przejrzysta intencja. A na razie spróbuj
      oklasków jedną ręką.
      • wars6 Re: Brawo Wars6! 17.02.04, 19:39
        starywiarus napisał:

        > Napisz sam coś stylistycznie zgrabnego, to wtedy może pogadamy.

        Juz sie robi:

        Raz Stary na swiata kresie
        pisal ile internet zniesie.
        Gdy dostal brawa
        zmienial sie w pawia,
        krytykow zas topil w sedesie.

        No i o czym bedziemy dyskutowac? O stylu czy o tresci?

        > Z Tobą chyba też się nie rzucę w dyskusję na temat: “A w Ameryce/Australi
        > i
        > Murzynów/Aborygenów biją”. Zbyt przejrzysta intencja.

        Nie przejrzales intencji. To nie byla zacheta do dyskusji tylko ciekawosc
        opinii Starego Wiarusa na aktualne tematy australijskie.

        > A na razie spróbuj
        > oklasków jedną ręką.

        Oklaskow za artykul nie bedzie.
        A za odpornosc na krytyke naleza sie gwizdy.
        • Gość: lame ryk pawia_na A za odpornosc na krytyke naleza sie gwizdy. IP: *.dyn.optonline.net 20.02.04, 00:31
          ignoratio elenchi nie jest żadną krytyką jeno błędem w sztuce
    • starywiarus THE BREAMS STRIKE BACK n/txt 17.02.04, 14:20
      • lymeryk what about white mice, do you see them too? /nt 17.02.04, 20:24
    • Gość: Kasia Re: On Governance, Reign and Breams IP: *.oc.oc.cox.net 17.02.04, 16:53
      Jestes zarozumialym starcem ktoremu brak kultury.
      Jesli ktos ma inne zdanie niz ty starcze to nie powod zeby obrzucac wyzwiskami.
      • starypierdola Re: On Governance, Reign and Breams 17.02.04, 17:00
        Do ktorego piszesz? Obu?? Tu dwu starych!!!
        SP
        • Gość: Kasia Re: On Governance, Reign and Breams IP: *.oc.oc.cox.net 17.02.04, 17:02
          Dla mnie jasne do ktorego. Nie zauwazylam zebys Ty obrazal swoich dyskutantow.
          • starypierdola Re: On Governance, Reign and Breams 17.02.04, 19:53
            >>Nie zauwazylam zebys Ty obrazal swoich dyskutantow.<<

            Brzdzo przepraszam. Obiecuje poprawe bo zdjae sobie sprawe ze inaczej jeszcze
            mnie kto wyrzuci z tego forum!
            smile))
            SP
        • soup_nazi Re: On Governance, Reign and Breams 17.02.04, 17:07
          starypierdola napisał:

          > Do ktorego piszesz? Obu?? Tu dwu starych!!!

          Trzech. "Kasia" to stary piernik, ktory glupa lepi, hehehe
          • Gość: Kasia Pod rozwage IP: *.oc.oc.cox.net 17.02.04, 17:17
            Gdy koncza sie argumenty zaczyna sie obrzucanie wyzwiskami.
            • soup_nazi Re: Pod rozwage 17.02.04, 17:20
              Gość portalu: Kasia napisał(a):

              > Gdy koncza sie argumenty zaczyna sie obrzucanie wyzwiskami.

              >>Jestes zarozumialym starcem ktoremu brak kultury.
              Jesli ktos ma inne zdanie niz ty starcze to nie powod zeby obrzucac
              wyzwiskami.<<

              Jak Kali ukrasc komu krowe to dobrze, hehehe
    • filipek.us So, Wiarus, tell me how come you'we got such a str 17.02.04, 20:41

      • filipek.us ong response on your English translation and 17.02.04, 20:43

        • filipek.us Polish version didn't stir too much fuss? 17.02.04, 20:46
          Is it more dangerous or what?
          • koszalek.opalek3 Re: Polish version didn't stir too much fuss? 17.02.04, 20:48
            ja ci powaznie dobrze radze: pisz po polsku bo angielski masz chujowy.

            Zacznij nauke od prawidlowego uzywania czasow.
        • koszalek.opalek3 Re: ong response on your English translation and 17.02.04, 20:46
          ty juz lepiej pisz po polsku bo dajesz taka sama plame jak joasia.

          "you'we" co to jest?
          • Gość: joanna dla ciebie IP: 5.5D* / *.cg.shawcable.net 17.02.04, 21:00
            tez cudous chrzaszczu z trzciny z trzebzeszyny. rowniez dedykuje ci e z gory.
            i'll teach you to fuck with me. do it right therr. yeah. a teraz spierdalaj
            sasza suchom polskom szosom.
            • koszalek.opalek3 Re: dla ciebie 17.02.04, 21:06
              zglos sie na kolejny ESL:
              "i'll teach you to fuck with me." bo chyba sama nie wiesz co napisalas
            • filipek.us Joasiu, dzięki ale jakoś sobie chyba sobie poradzę 17.02.04, 21:08
              You may ask koszałka to write in English and then we'll see how fluently he'd
              express himself wink I bet you that he's got the English grammar book in front of
              him and is trying to find desperately a sentence or two he he he
              • filipek.us Koszałeńku! Bój to był Twój ostatni? 17.02.04, 21:58
                www.sovmusic.ru/mp3/inter_pl.mp3
                filipek.us napisał:

                > You may ask koszałka to write in English and then we'll see how fluently he'd
                > express himself wink I bet you that he's got the English grammar book in front
                > of him and is trying to find desperately a sentence or two he he he
          • filipek.us That's beyond your comprehension, that's for sure 17.02.04, 21:01

            • koszalek.opalek3 Re: That's beyond your comprehension, that's for 17.02.04, 21:05
              alez zgadzam sie
              jak sie pisze z bledami to trudno zrozumiec o co ci biega
    • luiza-w-ogrodzie Prosze ilu rybakow sie znalazlo 17.02.04, 22:09
      ...mysla ze tu jakiegos Polonijnego leszcza zlowia. Jaki ruch, malo sobie w
      tloku oczy wedkami nie powybijaja. Good onya, mates, keep lifting this topic (a
      co, tez znam angielski!).

      Pozdrawiam
      Luiza-w-Ogrodzie

      "have your fun and keep lafing" ©joanna

      .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>
      • koszalek.opalek3 Re: Prosze ilu rybakow sie znalazlo 17.02.04, 22:12
        uwazaj z tym angielskim bo jonna i filipek juz sie zblaznili
        • filipek.us Re: Prosze ilu rybakow sie znalazlo 17.02.04, 22:15
          koszalek.opalek3 napisała:

          > uwazaj z tym angielskim bo jonna i filipek juz sie zblaznili

          forum.gazeta.pl/forum/72,2.html?f=44&w=10809423&a=10829938
      • filipek.us Australia jest miejscem na urlop i chyba na nic wi 19.02.04, 21:09
        Australia też jest fajnym miejscem na urlop i chyba na nic więcej.
    • ertes Re: On Governance, Reign and Breams 17.02.04, 22:50
      Jest szansa byc jeszcze "lepiej": Samoobrona bedzie rzadzic.
      Lepper premierem czy prezydentem. Czytajac te wyniki sondazy mozna sie po prostu
      zalamac sad
    • lymeryk on gloomy visions of bottom feeders 17.02.04, 23:34
      my previously lost second part of my reply, hope it works this time

      > The secondary objective of diaspora vilification is the propaganda run-up to
      > a forthcoming experiment in taxation without representation. Everybody in
      > Poland knows by now that the rats have had it too good for too long. And
      > every Pole in the West can well guess that Poland's appetite for free cash,
      > with no strings attached, is exactly the same it has always been - unlimited.
      wiarus do you really believe that all the media in Poland is still in the
      hands of communists? just simple yes or no would suffice and
      would help me to understand where are you coming from


      >
      > A social mindset is being created
      who is creating so called 'social mindset', or should i restate the
      question into a form that you might be better familiar with:
      who is behind this?
      so far the only person creating this mindset is YOU and this is purely
      your mindset (which in itself is a clear overstatement)

      > in Poland that may eventually allow a
      > declaration, at an as yet undetermined point in the future, that any and all
      > individuals of Polish birth of origin, irrespective of their place of
      > residence or acquired nationality, their children, heirs and successors, all
      > owe their dues to the distant Motherland.
      be specific, what do you mean by
      "yet undetermined point in the future" it sounds like never ever
      what is a point to write about something that will never happen?
      do you want to scare people with your Cassandra vision of the world that
      does not and will not exist?


      > A 10% global tithe would go a long
      > way towards provision of comforts to 600 thousand state officials, members of
      > the byzantine local government, Young Communists League apparatchiks struck
      > by the revelation of social democracy in their middle age, and jackbooted
      > nationalist populists, decidedly brownish going on deeper and deeper black in
      > their hue of shirts.
      ok, wiarus now i am getting it, you are a aspiring science-fiction writer
      and you are having hard time to get recognized by anybody but
      few bored and obviously neglected Hausfrauen on this obscure forum
      don't loose your hope, work hard and sooner or later
      somebody in the real world will notice you and offer you a few warm words
      of encouragement and possibly warm meal!


      >
      > Such a development would see many dancing in the streets of Poland. The
      > economic tigers of New Europe (20% unemployment at the last count) truly
      > adore the taste of free cash, courtesy of foreign suckers. The Polish modern
      > slang for sucker is "leszcz", bream. Bream is a species of fat, tasty, and
      > exceptionally stupid freshwater fish. Honest work, just reward and personal
      > sacrifice do not taste nearly as sweet in Poland as a good bream does.
      wiarus, did you ever ate fish with hard to pronounce name "leszcz"
      i can assure you they are not "exceptionally stupid", somebody
      (possibly on purpose) must be misleading you
      Leszcz is just a simple fish that want to live like any other fish,
      and it is absolutely not true that they are very tasty
      they are just about at the very bottom of the taste pyramid.
      They taste dull and often smell like bottom feeders,
      and you certainly now something about that, do you? wink

      >
      > The prospect of turning the most or the whole of the Polish diaspora against
      > Poland by such a move is of no consequence to the political class. There will
      > be enough breams forced to pay by tugging the emotional strings tying them
      > to ancestral graves and ailing old parents in Poland to make the whole thing
      > profitable.
      wiarus, wake up, nobody gives a damn about Polonia in Poland and vice versa
      the only connections are on the sentimental and family level
      and please leave "ailing old parents" out of that, it is really not necessary
      to
      make a political buck on their backs


      >
      > Altogether, my mood at all this is one of pervasive sadness.
      well, i would be sad myself, having all this pessimistic visions,
      day after day, night after night,
      those sleepless nights must be specially hard on you
      is your air conditioning working? Recently we are having lots of complaints
      from AU about terrible hot clammy weather and not
      working AC


      >
      > The contours of old Communist Poland remain in plain view under a hastily
      > applied thin veneer of democracy. The Polish President, an enthusiastic
      > Communist Party apparatchik until the day his Party sank from under him,
      > declares his happiness with "OUR decision to fight Communism". My friends
      > left behind are increasingly inclined to accept I must have become a rat,
      > since they all know that my business skills are insufficient for a rich
      > renegade.
      wiarus, Poland is no longer communist, there are still communists in Poland
      and there are many that used to be members of communist party
      now they have changed their alliances because their are pragmatic and because
      their are conformists, and there is nothing you can do about that
      morally these people deserve condemnation, beyond that there is little
      anybody can do
      fortunately there are many new political parties and movements in Poland
      none of them perfect but that is how democracy works,
      democracy is specially difficult in country that is so poor and was
      for so long under foreign control or occupation
      and attacking indiscriminately polish democracy is very disgraceful indeed


      >
      > And tertium non datur.
      wow, you are such an cultured man, what does this mean? wink

      anyway, if you have some supportive arguments for you pessimistic ranting
      let me know

      and of course have a nice day

      • filipek.us Re: on lame visions of lymeryk 18.02.04, 00:36
        filipek.us napisał:

        > lymeryk napisał:
        >
        > > my previously lost second part of my reply, hope it works this time
        > >
        > § 11 YES see the Rywin case
        > > wiarus do you really believe that all the media in Poland is still in the
        > > hands of communists? just simple yes or no would suffice and
        > > would help me to understand where are you coming from
        > >
        > >
        > § 12 how about Redliński's idea?
        > > who is creating so called 'social mindset', or should i restate the
        > > question into a form that you might be better familiar with:
        > > who is behind this?
        > > so far the only person creating this mindset is YOU and this is purely
        > > your mindset (which in itself is a clear overstatement)
        > >
        > § 13 as specific as you lymeryk?
        > > be specific, what do you mean by
        > > "yet undetermined point in the future" it sounds like never ever
        > > what is a point to write about something that will never happen?
        > > do you want to scare people with your Cassandra vision of the world that
        > > does not and will not exist?
        > >
        > § 14 same to you lymeryk. you may even get promotion to full lieutenant
        > > ok, wiarus now i am getting it, you are a aspiring science-fiction writer
        > > and you are having hard time to get recognized by anybody but
        > > few bored and obviously neglected Hausfrauen on this obscure forum
        > > don't loose your hope, work hard and sooner or later
        > > somebody in the real world will notice you and offer you a few warm words
        > > of encouragement and possibly warm meal!
        > >
        > § 15 Leszcz is the title of the certain movie, lymeryk, and is a kida of
        idiom
        > in Polish, but you rather be intentionally ignorant, wouldn't you? this
        > refutation is certainly dull.
        > > wiarus, did you ever ate fish with hard to pronounce name "leszcz"
        > > i can assure you they are not "exceptionally stupid", somebody
        > > (possibly on purpose) must be misleading you
        > > Leszcz is just a simple fish that want to live like any other fish,
        > > and it is absolutely not true that they are very tasty
        > > they are just about at the very bottom of the taste pyramid.
        > > They taste dull and often smell like bottom feeders,
        > > and you certainly now something about that, do you? wink
        > >
        >
        > § 16 the future, the president, is no visa
        > > wiarus, wake up, nobody gives a damn about Polonia in Poland and vice vers
        > a
        > > the only connections are on the sentimental and family level
        > > and please leave "ailing old parents" out of that, it is really not necess
        > ary
        > > to
        > > make a political buck on their backs
        > >
        >
        > § 17 nice point here, lymeryk. get a life. get a brain, lymeryk!
        > > well, i would be sad myself, having all this pessimistic visions,
        > > day after day, night after night,
        > > those sleepless nights must be specially hard on you
        > > is your air conditioning working? Recently we are having lots of complaint
        > s
        > > from AU about terrible hot clammy weather and not
        > > working AC
        > >
        > >
        > § 18 "thick line" policy of mr mazowiecki? heh heh
        > and how would you know about democracy? from tv?
        > > wiarus, Poland is no longer communist, there are still communists in Polan
        > d
        > > and there are many that used to be members of communist party
        > > now they have changed their alliances because their are pragmatic and beca
        > use
        > > their are conformists, and there is nothing you can do about that
        > > morally these people deserve condemnation, beyond that there is little
        > > anybody can do
        > > fortunately there are many new political parties and movements in Poland
        > > none of them perfect but that is how democracy works,
        > > democracy is specially difficult in country that is so poor and was
        > > for so long under foreign control or occupation
        > > and attacking indiscriminately polish democracy is very disgraceful indeed
        > >
        > § 19 no classic education? huh? oh yeah - not in the military academy anyway
        > > wow, you are such an cultured man, what does this mean? wink
        > >
        > > anyway, if you have some supportive arguments for you pessimistic ranting
        >
        > > let me know
        > >
        > > and of course have a nice day
        > >
        >
        >
      • Gość: wowa Re: on gloomy visions of bottom feeders IP: *.253-203-24.mc.videotron.ca 19.02.04, 01:39
        westa gliniaki na doksztalt lepiej tow. ola waszego 1 sekretarza z mlodziezowki PZPR-u
        bo znowu na salonach zacznie szalec de fjucze is no wisa
        tak trzymac tow.
      • Gość: Разведка Ministry Of Truth IP: *.dyn.optonline.net 19.02.04, 02:46
        16. Ministry Of Truth (Lies)<a href="http://www.orwelltoday.com/truth.shtml"ᡈ. Ministry Of Truth (Lies)
        </a>
      • kup_pan_paszport Klakierzy, za co wam podatnik płaci? Brawka plz. 21.02.04, 17:34
        Demagog przemówił
        a tu żadnego poklasku

        co jest grane?
        lame ryk siwej myszy pozostaje niezauważony?

        wars z koszałkiem:
        proszę spełnić obowiązek obywatelski
        i wyrazić poparcie
        • kup_pan_paszport Re: Klakierzy, za co wam podatnik płaci? Brawka p 24.02.04, 01:38

    • Gość: joanna ale mi sie nudzi IP: 5.5D* / *.cg.shawcable.net 19.02.04, 06:13
      chyba nikogo nie ma. no to up.
      • Gość: друг Re: ale mi sie nudzi IP: *.dyn.optonline.net 20.02.04, 23:56
        This should keep cockroaches busy for a while

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