Nieprzetłumaczalne (chyba) ...

chickenshorts Re: um, republic? 14.05.04, 23:55

Yep!

Res ) rzecz + Public ) publiczna )) which of course it is in more than one
sense...

But then, there is hope... at least according to Timothy Garton Ash:

Dizzy with success

Timothy Garton Ash in Warsaw
Thursday May 13, 2004

I am writing this at a window looking out on to the large, grey expanse of
Pilsudski Square, in central Warsaw. To the left is the Tomb of the Unknown
Soldier, guarded by smartly uniformed Polish soldiers whose comrades are now
serving in Iraq. To the right stands a statue of Marshal Pilsudski, the
founding father of Polish independence after the first world war. In the
distance, I can see the gables of the old town, reconstructed after Hitler's
occupying troops had razed it to the ground, and hideous high-rise apartment
blocks built during communist rule in the neighbourhood where the Nazis once
created the Warsaw ghetto. Directly across the square from my hotel is a
gleaming new office block designed by Norman Foster.
Old Europe, new Europe. What has this square not seen since I first looked out
on it 25 years ago? March-pasts for visiting Soviet viceroys. Illegal
demonstrations for the Polish liberation movement Solidarity. Tanks and
watercannon to reimpose communist rule. Blackmarket spivs, underground
couriers, secret police narks. More demonstrations. Rejoicing at the end of
communism. Welcomes to new friends, from François Mitterrand to George W Bush.
Military ceremonies to mark Poland joining Nato. Schoolchildren singing
Schiller's Ode to Joy, in Polish, to celebrate Poland's entry into the European
Union on May 1.
Twenty five years ago, Poland and Britain were in different worlds. Today, they
are not just in the same market-dominated world, with a Norman Foster building
that would be entirely at home on the south bank of the Thames; they are also
full and equal partners in the same military alliance and the same political
and economic community. That has never been true before; not in a thousand
years. The Poles, with their spirit of resistance and tough persistence, have
brought themselves to this success - with just a little help from their
friends. Before worrying about today's new problems, it's worth reflecting for
a moment on this incredible transformation - truly a miracle on the Vistula. To
all those countries, from Belarus to Burma, whose politics currently seems as
hopeless as did Poland's 25 years ago, Poland is a message of hope.
Meanwhile, what does Poland's new position mean in practice? It means busloads
of energetic young Poles making their way to Britain, and other parts of the
EU, in search of work. (The newspapers here advertise courses to "Polish your
English". Pun intended.) It means that on the Polish president's state visit to
London last week, he and the British prime minister cut private deals about the
EU constitution, the new European commission, the budget etc - you support me
on this, I'll support you on that - like any other pair of horse-trading EU
leaders. It means that when I turn on the Polish News 24 channel, I see the
defence minister giving a press conference about "our" situation in Iraq. When
he says "our allies", he means America and Britain. I notice that his
vocabulary contains prefabricated phrases identical to those used in the
Pentagon or the Ministry of Defence: "remnants of the former regime", "bands of
international terrorists". Twenty five years ago, the prefabricated phrases
came from Moscow. No, of course it's not the same, because Poland has freely
chosen to mouth these phrases. But domestic coinage they are not.
And what are today's big problems for our Polish ally? First of all, this dizzy
external political success is accompanied by crippling internal political
weakness. At the very moment of entering the EU, the country only has a
provisional government, not yet confirmed by a parliamentary vote. It has no
stable, strong, political parties. There has been endless factional infighting,
pettiness and what looks like an alarming level of corruption. As a result,
ordinary Poles are deeply disillusioned with politics. The turnout at the
country's first European elections will probably be very low, and populists are
gaining ground at an alarming pace. As in Italy, the economy seems to grow in
spite of political chaos, but Italy is hardly a very encouraging example of
mature democracy. I cannot avoid the conclusion that the country's whole
political class has, thus far, failed it. There is a famous and very Polish
saying of Marshal Pilsudski's: "To be victorious, and rest on your laurels,
that is defeat; to be defeated, and not give up, that is victory." Today,
Poland's politicians are not resting on the country's laurels but tearing them
apart.
In foreign policy, Poland is also in danger of losing its balance. Coming from
such a starting point, it could turn anyone's head to be treated by Washington
as a special, privileged partner, a great power at the top table. (After all,
even British prime ministers have their heads turned.) And Poland did need to
show France and Germany that the Franco-German couple cannot simply dictate the
future shape of the EU. But if Poland, a poor country that can barely form a
government, remains the only obstacle to a reasonable compromise on the
European constitutional treaty at next month's Brussels summit, that will not
be a good start to its EU membership. Poland also needs to demonstrate beyond
any doubt that it wants the whole of the EU to be the privileged interlocutor
of the US. It must not allow itself to be used by Washington as a tool
to "divide and rule" in Europe.
This will also help it to be taken seriously by its European partners. In
relations between countries, stereotypes die hard. The stereotypes of Poland
are still quite often negative or, at best, ironically sympathetic (eg, heroic
crazy cavalry charging Wehrmacht tanks). Despite all the polite public words,
genuine respect for Poles as serious partners in European policy is still in
short supply in most of western Europe, perhaps especially in Germany and
France. And the Poles most west Europeans encounter are still most likely to be
building workers, cleaning ladies or nannies. They are ambassadors too, and
most of them very good ones: hard-working, courteous, enterprising. But there
is still some way to go before western European policymakers take the Poles
seriously the way they do Italian, Spanish or French colleagues.
Yet Poland has very important things to bring to the table. It has, for
example, a deep interest in and experience of the EU's new eastern neighbours.
It also brings a particular sensibility. Take the execrable treatment of
prisoners in Iraq, the big news story that has been unfolding while I have been
here. In the past few days, I've talked to several Polish friends who supported
the Iraq war as a war of liberation, a war for human rights. For them, it's
these photographs of humiliation and torture, not the lack of a UN mandate or
the strange absence of WMDs, that seem to delegitimise the whole enterprise.
They speak about them with such horror and passion because they know what it's
like to be powerless and humiliated as a prisoner. Yesterday, one former
dissident and political prisoner said to me, "Perhaps this will be Poland's
contribution: to show the British and Americans how you can run prisons in
which people are not tortured."
As I write, the Spanish flag has been hoisted before the Tomb of the Unknown
Soldier, beside the Polish one, presumably for some official visit. Twenty five
years ago, Spain had only recently emerged from a dictatorship. Now it is a
prosperous country and a major European power. Poland can be one too, given
time and wise leadership. But if the story of Poland tells us anything, it is
that a natio

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jajo_z_kolcem Re: Nieprzetłumaczalne (chyba) ... 14.05.04, 21:57

"Commonthing" po prostu:)
chris-joe Re: Nieprzetłumaczalne (chyba) ... 14.05.04, 22:04

just like the Romans couldn't sleep at night wondering how would the future
Poles translate "Res Publica" into their language... Which, by the way,
translates -veeeeery roughly- into English...hmmm, let me think a little...
could it be: Republic!? Nah...
- Gość: wacko jacko Commonwealth n/t IP: *.nyc.rr.com 14.05.04, 22:41
  - chris-joe Re: Commonwealth n/t 14.05.04, 22:48
    
    "Commonwealth" is right when you mean "Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodow", in case
    of "Rzeczpospolita Polska" it is "Republic".
jadefish um, republic? 14.05.04, 23:44
- chickenshorts Re: um, republic? 14.05.04, 23:55
  
  Yep!
  
  Res ) rzecz + Public ) publiczna )) which of course it is in more than one
  sense...
  
  But then, there is hope... at least according to Timothy Garton Ash:
  
  Dizzy with success
  
  Timothy Garton Ash in Warsaw
  Thursday May 13, 2004
  
  I am writing this at a window looking out on to the large, grey expanse of
  Pilsudski Square, in central Warsaw. To the left is the Tomb of the Unknown
  Soldier, guarded by smartly uniformed Polish soldiers whose comrades are now
  serving in Iraq. To the right stands a statue of Marshal Pilsudski, the
  founding father of Polish independence after the first world war. In the
  distance, I can see the gables of the old town, reconstructed after Hitler's
  occupying troops had razed it to the ground, and hideous high-rise apartment
  blocks built during communist rule in the neighbourhood where the Nazis once
  created the Warsaw ghetto. Directly across the square from my hotel is a
  gleaming new office block designed by Norman Foster.
  Old Europe, new Europe. What has this square not seen since I first looked out
  on it 25 years ago? March-pasts for visiting Soviet viceroys. Illegal
  demonstrations for the Polish liberation movement Solidarity. Tanks and
  watercannon to reimpose communist rule. Blackmarket spivs, underground
  couriers, secret police narks. More demonstrations. Rejoicing at the end of
  communism. Welcomes to new friends, from François Mitterrand to George W Bush.
  Military ceremonies to mark Poland joining Nato. Schoolchildren singing
  Schiller's Ode to Joy, in Polish, to celebrate Poland's entry into the European
  Union on May 1.
  Twenty five years ago, Poland and Britain were in different worlds. Today, they
  are not just in the same market-dominated world, with a Norman Foster building
  that would be entirely at home on the south bank of the Thames; they are also
  full and equal partners in the same military alliance and the same political
  and economic community. That has never been true before; not in a thousand
  years. The Poles, with their spirit of resistance and tough persistence, have
  brought themselves to this success - with just a little help from their
  friends. Before worrying about today's new problems, it's worth reflecting for
  a moment on this incredible transformation - truly a miracle on the Vistula. To
  all those countries, from Belarus to Burma, whose politics currently seems as
  hopeless as did Poland's 25 years ago, Poland is a message of hope.
  Meanwhile, what does Poland's new position mean in practice? It means busloads
  of energetic young Poles making their way to Britain, and other parts of the
  EU, in search of work. (The newspapers here advertise courses to "Polish your
  English". Pun intended.) It means that on the Polish president's state visit to
  London last week, he and the British prime minister cut private deals about the
  EU constitution, the new European commission, the budget etc - you support me
  on this, I'll support you on that - like any other pair of horse-trading EU
  leaders. It means that when I turn on the Polish News 24 channel, I see the
  defence minister giving a press conference about "our" situation in Iraq. When
  he says "our allies", he means America and Britain. I notice that his
  vocabulary contains prefabricated phrases identical to those used in the
  Pentagon or the Ministry of Defence: "remnants of the former regime", "bands of
  international terrorists". Twenty five years ago, the prefabricated phrases
  came from Moscow. No, of course it's not the same, because Poland has freely
  chosen to mouth these phrases. But domestic coinage they are not.
  And what are today's big problems for our Polish ally? First of all, this dizzy
  external political success is accompanied by crippling internal political
  weakness. At the very moment of entering the EU, the country only has a
  provisional government, not yet confirmed by a parliamentary vote. It has no
  stable, strong, political parties. There has been endless factional infighting,
  pettiness and what looks like an alarming level of corruption. As a result,
  ordinary Poles are deeply disillusioned with politics. The turnout at the
  country's first European elections will probably be very low, and populists are
  gaining ground at an alarming pace. As in Italy, the economy seems to grow in
  spite of political chaos, but Italy is hardly a very encouraging example of
  mature democracy. I cannot avoid the conclusion that the country's whole
  political class has, thus far, failed it. There is a famous and very Polish
  saying of Marshal Pilsudski's: "To be victorious, and rest on your laurels,
  that is defeat; to be defeated, and not give up, that is victory." Today,
  Poland's politicians are not resting on the country's laurels but tearing them
  apart.
  In foreign policy, Poland is also in danger of losing its balance. Coming from
  such a starting point, it could turn anyone's head to be treated by Washington
  as a special, privileged partner, a great power at the top table. (After all,
  even British prime ministers have their heads turned.) And Poland did need to
  show France and Germany that the Franco-German couple cannot simply dictate the
  future shape of the EU. But if Poland, a poor country that can barely form a
  government, remains the only obstacle to a reasonable compromise on the
  European constitutional treaty at next month's Brussels summit, that will not
  be a good start to its EU membership. Poland also needs to demonstrate beyond
  any doubt that it wants the whole of the EU to be the privileged interlocutor
  of the US. It must not allow itself to be used by Washington as a tool
  to "divide and rule" in Europe.
  This will also help it to be taken seriously by its European partners. In
  relations between countries, stereotypes die hard. The stereotypes of Poland
  are still quite often negative or, at best, ironically sympathetic (eg, heroic
  crazy cavalry charging Wehrmacht tanks). Despite all the polite public words,
  genuine respect for Poles as serious partners in European policy is still in
  short supply in most of western Europe, perhaps especially in Germany and
  France. And the Poles most west Europeans encounter are still most likely to be
  building workers, cleaning ladies or nannies. They are ambassadors too, and
  most of them very good ones: hard-working, courteous, enterprising. But there
  is still some way to go before western European policymakers take the Poles
  seriously the way they do Italian, Spanish or French colleagues.
  Yet Poland has very important things to bring to the table. It has, for
  example, a deep interest in and experience of the EU's new eastern neighbours.
  It also brings a particular sensibility. Take the execrable treatment of
  prisoners in Iraq, the big news story that has been unfolding while I have been
  here. In the past few days, I've talked to several Polish friends who supported
  the Iraq war as a war of liberation, a war for human rights. For them, it's
  these photographs of humiliation and torture, not the lack of a UN mandate or
  the strange absence of WMDs, that seem to delegitimise the whole enterprise.
  They speak about them with such horror and passion because they know what it's
  like to be powerless and humiliated as a prisoner. Yesterday, one former
  dissident and political prisoner said to me, "Perhaps this will be Poland's
  contribution: to show the British and Americans how you can run prisons in
  which people are not tortured."
  As I write, the Spanish flag has been hoisted before the Tomb of the Unknown
  Soldier, beside the Polish one, presumably for some official visit. Twenty five
  years ago, Spain had only recently emerged from a dictatorship. Now it is a
  prosperous country and a major European power. Poland can be one too, given
  time and wise leadership. But if the story of Poland tells us anything, it is
  that a natio
  - chickenshorts Re: um, republic? 14.05.04, 23:57
    
    ...that a nation's success or failure is never preordained. "
    
    Uff, there!
    - chris-joe Re: um, republic? 15.05.04, 12:20
      
      a very wise text; how 'bout: "Today, Poland's politicians are not resting on
      the country's laurels but tearing them apart." Witty :)

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