common mistakes

[Gość: Marta]

Hi there,

this message if for english native speakers who teach english to polish
students: i have been wondering what are the most common mistakes that your
students make? Any interesting mistakes in collocations? Language calque?


I may contribute with what I have found out lately (better late than never:-)
Students often say "I don't like this kind of films". It should be "I don't
like these kinds of films".

take care Marta

[Gość: Sar6092]

Marta
Yes " most folks in us say "I don't like this kind of films". which is
theoretically incorrect but that's spoken english. So you don't hear " these
kinds" much. If you ever actually go to US or UK you'll find that most people
don't speak the same language that so called "english textbooks" made for
polish students teach you..

[Gość: Sar6092]

besides, most of american students would not know what coloque or colloqiall
means if you've asked them. Don't worry too much about grammar try to use
english in a informal conversations, as much as you can.

Sorry, I migh not be enlgish teacher because I grew up in Poland but have lived
in US long enough to figure out what's proper english and what's not.
The common mistake made by polish people comming to US is that they are trying
to speak colloqual english instead of using "straight english"..which is speak
like everybody else..lol

[Gość: wacko jacko]

Sar#### you seem to be a good guy, so please stop loling.
lol and USofA are two, that get under my skin.
There are three English languages: written, read and spoken.
Common mistake made by Poles is omitting "the" and "a" ie.
Rain in Spain falls only in plains.
The rain in Spain falls only in the plains.

[Gość: Sar6092]

Gość portalu: wacko jacko napisał(a):

> Sar#### you seem to be a good guy, so please stop loling.
> lol and USofA are two, that get under my skin.
> There are three English languages: written, read and spoken.
> Common mistake made by Poles is omitting "the" and "a" ie.
> Rain in Spain falls only in plains.
> The rain in Spain falls only in the plains.

Jacko
I've used; "lol" only once, besides I've learned it from ... an Americans just
as "US" before that I would always say "United States or USA".
I realised Poles tend to skip "the" and "a".
I always wondered why do you need those in a first place, than I realised its
propably becasue english language sounds like.... flowing and it avoids vowel
clusters.
Another thing polish students do is that they doesn't pronounce words softly
enough. I think most of them do it because they afraid,that if they pronounce
words softly; ( with your tounge outside and mouth half open) it will sound
kind of like lisping in Polish, and as you know only small kids without teeth
do that...

[dandelion]

Sar6092....are U native??? Don't kid yourself with the mistakes you
make...please.Give yourself a break,will you?Have a nice day anyway LOL.
Gość portalu: Sar6092 napisał(a):

> Gość portalu: wacko jacko napisał(a):
>
> > Sar#### you seem to be a good guy, so please stop loling.
> > lol and USofA are two, that get under my skin.
> > There are three English languages: written, read and spoken.
> > Common mistake made by Poles is omitting "the" and "a" ie.
> > Rain in Spain falls only in plains.
> > The rain in Spain falls only in the plains.
>
> Jacko
> I've used; "lol" only once, besides I've learned it from ... an Americans
just
> as "US" before that I would always say "United States or USA".
> I realised Poles tend to skip "the" and "a".
> I always wondered why do you need those in a first place, than I realised its
> propably becasue english language sounds like.... flowing and it avoids vowel
> clusters.
> Another thing polish students do is that they doesn't pronounce words softly
> enough. I think most of them do it because they afraid,that if they pronounce
> words softly; ( with your tounge outside and mouth half open) it will sound
> kind of like lisping in Polish, and as you know only small kids without teeth
> do that...
>

[Gość: sisi]

To me, 'rain in Spain falls only in plains' seems to be perfectly OK, except
for its logical contents. What's more, I'd rather say that Polish learners
overuse the articles (the and a).

[Gość: Wojtek]

"I'd rather say..."

Don't! The first Polish sin - omition of the articles;
2nd - sircumlocution (describing rather than naming
things)

[Gość: Wojtek]

Circumlocution that is!

[Gość: nat]

Doesn't it come down to 'beating about the bush'? A bit of a nonsense as
theories go, quite superfluos in language teaching. It's common sense that with
the growth of vocabulary the need to describe objects/feelings etc in a round-
about style will simply disappear.

[Gość: Wojtek]

Yes, you are right. What I really wanted to say was that we tend to use more
words than necessary. Instead of "omission of the articles" it is more English
to say "article omission", etc...

mistakes....

[maggie7]

I talk to Polish people here in the USA pretty much everyday. One of my jobs is
to evaluate their level of English. Some of the mistakes I hear all the time
are the following:
- first of all, Polish people don't seem to know how to use the articles;
- also they use "which" instead of "who" or "that" e.g I am this kind of person
WHICH doesn't like....
- present progressive vs. present simple; Polish people overuse the first one
omitting "to be" at the same time; talking about themselves they would say for
example: I reading newspapers every day.
- make vs. do; Polish people use MAKE instead of DO e.g. I MAKE the laundry; I
MAKE shopping;
- subordinate clauses; example: I don't know what are you talking about. Polish
pepole refuse to understand that it doesn't work like that; the correct
sentence is: I don't know what you are talking about. The subordinate clause is
not a question!
- other mistakes: my hair ARE long; money ARE important; and alike...

As far as pronounciation is concerned, Polish people forget that English
letters, although they look like Polish, are not pronounced the same way:
- don't read the letter "i" like you would in Polish beacause it changes the
meaning of a word; in English "i" sounds more like Polish "y"; compare the
following:
fit - feet; bit - beat; lid - lead; and so on...
- consonants; in Polish you can say "chleb" and the "b" will sound like "p" but
it won't change the meaning of the word; it's fine in Polish but it's not the
same in English; in English there's is a difference between voiced vs.
voiceless consonants; you can't substitute one with the other because it
changes the meaning of a word; for example:
foot - food; pat - pad; sag - sac; lab - lap etc.

That's it for now. If I remember more mistakes, I will let you know.
Take care :)

[Gość: nat]

You are absolutely right even if you are stating the obvious. That is the point
of the language classyfing as 'foreign' - intricacies of pronunciacion,
oddities like those quoted by you: 'hair is' against 'wlosy sa'etc etc. I
personally do not believe that it is possible to iron them out in the classroom
teaching. You do need contact with native speakers to grasp and then attempt to
immitate the way they talk and express ideas. Sadly, American English has been
known to confuse many a dilligent student of Received Pronunciacion.

[Gość: Prezes]

maggie7 napisała:

> I talk to Polish people here in the USA pretty much
everyday. One of my jobs is
>
> to evaluate their level of English. Some of the
mistakes I hear all the time
> are the following:
> - first of all, Polish people don't seem to know how to
use the articles;

that is no surprise, since virtually all slavic
languages do not have (and do not need) the articles.
Well, except for Bulgarian, I guess...

It is extremely difficult to learn to properly
use something which does not have any equivalent
in your native language.

I once attended a Spanish class and noticed that
it was nearly impossible for most Americans
to understand that every noun has a gender
(they were fortunate, since there are only 2 genders
in Spanish !) and that you have to use the correct
form of a verb depending on the gender.



> - also they use "which" instead of "who" or "that" e.g
I am this kind of person
>
> WHICH doesn't like....
> - present progressive vs. present simple; Polish people
overuse the first one
> omitting "to be" at the same time; talking about
themselves they would say for
> example: I reading newspapers every day.

> - make vs. do; Polish people use MAKE instead of DO
e.g. I MAKE the laundry; I
> MAKE shopping;

this is another thing which is difficult to
distinguish, since one polish verb (robic)
can be translated as to do or to make,
and there is no logical way to tell them apart.
You just need to know how it goes, that's it.
You MAKE money, but DO the laundry etc.
And sometimes you can DO both ways,
i.e. you can MAKE lunch and you can DO lunch,
although it is not the same thing.

The only way to learn this is through practice,
so I am not surprised that many beginners MAKE
such mistakes.


> - subordinate clauses; example: I don't know what are
you talking about. Polish
>
> pepole refuse to understand that it doesn't work like
that; the correct
> sentence is: I don't know what you are talking about.
The subordinate clause is
>
> not a question!
> - other mistakes: my hair ARE long; money ARE
important; and alike...
>
> As far as pronounciation is concerned, Polish people
forget that English
> letters, although they look like Polish, are not
pronounced the same way:
> - don't read the letter "i" like you would in Polish
beacause it changes the
> meaning of a word; in English "i" sounds more like
Polish "y"; compare the
> following:
> fit - feet; bit - beat; lid - lead; and so on...
> - consonants; in Polish you can say "chleb" and the "b"
will sound like "p" but
>
> it won't change the meaning of the word; it's fine in
Polish but it's not the
> same in English; in English there's is a difference
between voiced vs.
> voiceless consonants; you can't substitute one with the
other because it
> changes the meaning of a word; for example:
> foot - food; pat - pad; sag - sac; lab - lap etc.
>
> That's it for now. If I remember more mistakes, I will
let you know.
> Take care :)


Are these problems something unique to Poles,
or do they cross national boundaries ?

[Gość: sisi]

Wojtek, why didn't you say what you really wanted?
Trying to find fault with others while being free to talk gibberish?

[Gość: krecha]

"omission of the articles" is more correct than "article omission" is. The second is an example of
"germanisms" in the English language, and germanisms are generally discouraged.

[Gość: krecha]

and "omission"

[Gość: Wojtek]

Krecha (and other contributors),
please, be patient with me. It is only the desire to know and understand that
makes me come back on this thread and ask, even at the risk of being called a
clichè peddler, gibberish monger or simply old twit, if the"omission of the
articles " is better and more correct than "article omission", the latter being
considered a 'germanism'? Is that true? After all, English is a germanic
language. By the same token, 'clichè peddler' would be less correct than
the 'peddler of the clichès'.

[Gość: nat]

Is the cup half full of half empty?
Much of the machness - ie both are absolutely correct and all that germanic
theory is nothing but gibberish. Music sheet or sheet of music? Language is not
based on mathematical principles but even there x + y = y + x. You are on the
right track so do not be mislead. And in 'My Fair Lady' rain in Spain falls
only on a plain. Just a plain, no Lowlands, Midlands or Highlands, just a
plain. How do people come up with all these weird explanations? And why oh why?

[Gość: Wojtek]

Thank you, nat.

both articles are necessary

[Gość: krecha]

We need both "thes" in the sentence about the rain in Spain.

(1) The rain - not rain - because we know what rain is meant (the one in Spain)

(2) In the plains - because "the Plains" is a geographic region (like "the Highlands" in Scotland)

[Gość: sisi]

Gość portalu: krecha napisał(a):

> We need both "thes" in the sentence about the rain in Spain.
>
> (1) The rain - not rain - because we know what rain is meant (the one in
Spain)
I agree.
> (2) In the plains - because "the Plains" is a geographic region (like "the
High
> lands" in Scotland)
Oh, so they were the Plains, not the plains! That's a difference, isn't it?