Czym jest saudade?

[endereco]

Podobno saudade nie da się przełożyć na żaden obcy język z powodu
nieuchwytności jego znaczenia. A czym dla Was jest saudade? Do tych, którzy
mieszkają w Pt: czy zauważacie obecność tego stanu w życiu codziennym? A może
tak naprawdę nic się za słowem saudade nie kryje?

[um_lusopolaco]

Jak to nic sie za tym nie kryje?! Saudade istnieje naprawde! Ktos (chyba Eduardo
Lourenco, ale pewnosci nie mam) stwierdzil, ze saudade to zawieszenie pomiedzy
"jeszcze nie" i "juz nie".
Saudade istnieje i naprawde jest tylko i wylacznie portugalskie (lub raczej
portugalska). Kiedy w Polsce czuje, ze jestem tak daleko od Portugalii i nie
moge sobie tego wybaczyc, i kiedy slucham portugalskiego radia lub jakiegos
smutnego fado i kiedy w polskich miastach chodze ulicami Lizbony, bedac tylko
fizycznie w Polsce a myslami znacznie blizej Atlantyku, wtedy wlasnie odczuwam
saudade.

[xavier111]

ja tam nic nie czuje ani nie zauwazam. jak wyjezdzam z lizbony to czuje za nia
najnormalniejsza na swiecie tesknote a nie zadna niezdefiniowana saudade. nie
rozumiem tez tego szumu wobec niedefiniowalnosci saudade. czy jest jakies inne
slowo na tesknote w portugalskim? nie znam. wiec saudade to tesknota i juz. a
ma troche bardziej rozbudowane znaczenie bo jest to pojecie ktore obroslo
mitami - stalo sie czescia kultury portugalskiej i zaczeto go uzywac do
charakteryzowania mentalnosci portugalczykow.

Saudade from Wikipedia.

[portulaco]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Saudade is a Portuguese word generally considered one of the hardest words to
translate. It originated from the Latin word solitate (loneliness), but with a
different meaning. Loneliness in Portuguese is solidão, also with the same word
origin. Few other languages in the world have a word with such meaning, making
Saudade a distinct mark of Portuguese culture.

In Portuguese, this word serves to describe the feeling of missing someone (or
something) you're fond of. For instance, the sentence "Eu sinto muitas saudades
tuas" (I feel too much "saudade" of you) directly translates into "I miss you
too much". "Eu sinto muito a tua falta" also has the same meaning in English
("falta" and "saudades" both are translated for missing), but it is different
in Portuguese. It also relates to feelings of melancholy and fond memories of
gone-by days, lost love and a general feeling of unhappiness.

Saudade is, for instance, the title of Cape Verdian singer Cesária Évora's most
famous song; French singer Etienne Daho also produced a song titled "Saudade."

Contents
1 Saudade as a state of being
2 Fado
3 Saudade and love
4 Morriña




Saudade as a state of being
Some specialists say that this word has come to life during the Great
Portuguese Discoveries, giving meaning to the sadness felt by those who
departed in journeys to the unknown seas. Those who stayed behind—mostly women
and children—deeply suffered with their absence, and such state has almost
become a "portuguese way of life": the constant feeling of absence, the sadness
of something that's missing, the wistful longing for completeness or wholeness
and the yearning for presence (as opposed to absence), that is to say, a strong
desire to matar saudades (literally, to kill the saudade).

In the latter half of the 20th century Saudade has become associated with the
feeling of longing for one's homeland, as hundreds of thousands of Portuguese
left in search of better futures in North America and Northern Europe.


Fado
Fado is a Portuguese music style. Generally sang by a single person (the
fadista) along with a Portuguese guitar. The most popular themes of fado are
saudade, nostalgia, jealousy, and short stories of the typical city quarters.
The word fado comes from latin fatum (destiny).


Saudade and love

Saudade emoticon.Although named by the Portuguese, saudade is a universal
feeling related to love. It occurs when two people are in love, but apart from
each other. Saudade occurs when we are thinking of a person whom we love and we
are happy about having that feeling while we are thinking of that person, but
he/she is out of reach, making us sad and we start to feel our heart crushing.
The pain and these mixed feelings are named Saudade. The same feeling can be
applied to other occasions, such has being far from your native country and
culture.


Morriña
Saudade is also associated with Galicia (morriña), an autonomous province in
northern Spain whose language (Galician, or Galego) is related to Portuguese
and whose culture is influenced by Spain, Portugal and also the Celtic
countries. In northern Portugal, morrinha (written differently, but pronunced
alike) is a regional word to describe sprinkles - morrinhar (to sprinkle), most
common Portuguese word elsewhere is chuvisco and chuviscar. Morrinha is also
used in this region for refeering sick animals, and occasionally to sick or sad
people, often along with irony.

Retrieved from "en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudade"

[menina]

portugalskie saudade to nasza slowianska nostalgia i juz.

[portulaco]

Once I said to some foreign friend of myne that Saudade is in fact Nostalgia.

Some Portuguese believe that it's not because Saudade is more related with
melancholy with some state of mind, spiritual and unique feeling
of Portuguese people and ratata... :-)

Well I'm in Poland for more than one year so I have Saudade of my family and
Portugal, in English you say "I miss my country and family" and in Polish
something like "tesknie" or "brakuje mi" isn't it?

Is it reasonable to say that Saudade is so different from feelings like
nostalgia of somebody or something? I guess that the word is single but no more
than this.

cytat z "Ignorance" / "Ignorancja" Milan Kundera

[assim]

"... The Greek word for "return" is nostos. Algos means "suffering." So
nostalgia is the suffering caused by an unappeased yearning to return. To
express that fundamental notion most Europeans can utilize a word derived from
the Greek (nostalgia, nostalgie) as well as other words with roots in their
national languages: añoranza, say the Spaniards; saudade, say the Portuguese.
In each language these words have a different semantic nuance. Often they mean
only the sadness caused by the impossibility of returning to one's country: a
longing for country, for home. What in English is called "homesickness." Or in
German: Heimweh. In Dutch: heimwee. But this reduces that great notion to just
its spatial element. One of the oldest European languages, Icelandic (like
English) makes a distinction between two terms: söknuour: nostalgia in its
general sense; and heimprá: longing for the homeland. Czechs have the Greek-
derived nostalgie as well as their own noun, stesk, and their own verb; the
most moving, Czech expression of love: styska se mi po tobe ("I yearn for
you," "I'm nostalgic for you"; "I cannot bear the pain of your absence"). In
Spanish añoranza comes from the verb añorar (to feel nostalgia), which comes
from the Catalan enyorar, itself derived from the Latin word ignorare (to be
unaware of, not know, not experience; to lack or miss), In that etymological
light nostalgia seems something like the pain of ignorance, of not knowing. You
are far away, and I don't know what has become of you. My country is far away,
and I don't know what is happening there. Certain languages have problems with
nostalgia: the French can only express it by the noun from the Greek root, and
have no verb for it; they can say Je m'ennuie de toi (I miss you), but the word
s'ennuyer is weak, cold

[portulaco]

I never read Kundera's book ignorance but seems indeed interesting and of prime
importance to understand this question about saudade, thank you.

All the forum participants can reed the complete article here:

www.readinggroupguides.com/guides3/ignorance3.asp

[aska2000]

...saudade... could be described as longing for something (somebody)
unattainable, am I right..?

[portulaco]

You can call that "saudades do futuro". It's very complicated to explain and
only somebody studing literature and philosophy would be able to explain you
this accuratly.

Many authors refered has something you idealized or something you would like to
have and you can't obtain, so the melancholy becames a "saudade" feeling like a
nostalgia from a world that's only yours and even if one day will exist -and
will not be as you idealized- you will be missing it 'saudades do futuro".

I found this poem in the internet -unknown author- wich is quite interesting to
understand this, the translation is not so good for wich I apologize.


Sinto saudades do futuro, que se idealizado,

I MISS THE FUTURE, WICH IDEALIZED,

provavelmente não será do jeito que eu penso que vai ser...

PROBABLY WILL NOT BE AS I THINK IT WILL BE...

Sinto saudades de quem me deixou e de quem eu deixei,

I MISS THOSE WHO LEFT ME BEHIND AND WHOM I LEFT,

de quem disse que viria e nem apareceu;

THE ONE WHO SAID WOULD COME AND DIDN'T EVEN APPEARED;

de quem apareceu correndo, sem me conhecer direito,

WHO CAME RUNNING, WITHOUT KNOWING ME WELL,

de quem nunca vou ter a oportunidade de conhecer.


WHO I WILL NEVER HAVE OPORTUNITY TO KNOW.

foruns.terravista.pt/SForums/$M=readthread$TH=3167096$F=45081$ME=8442101

[aska2000]

Not knowing Portuguese I cannot compare your translation to the original, but I
suppose it explains the "saudade" phenomenon accurately...
And in a very nostalgic way, too...

[dagmaranowicka]

saudade to nostalgia