Not a question about teaching

[ladyc]

Hi English Teachers-
This is not a question about teaching but I need some help from
someone adult in Poland who can speak English so I thought I'd come
here.
I need to do a lead test on a paint chip to determine if the
woodwork in my house was painted originally with lead paint or not.
It is important to know before I do any work on it and potentially
poisin my family.Where would I find something like that and what
would it be called? I did read on the internet that lead paint was
not used in Europe from about 1930 but I found that info in a blog
so I'm not sure how reliable it is.

If anybody has any info I'd be grateful.
Thanks "from the mountains" ha, ha I couldn't resist!

[joalma]

I'm not sure but I hope they may help
schr.bip.nor.pl/?aid=5
you just need to find the nearest city, submit a sample of this
paint, pay some money & you'll get the composition.

[ladyc]

Thanks so much for your quick answer. I'll let you know what I find
out.

[vickydt]

I do hope that the tests result no lead added :)
Keep us informed. We may find another solution, ask some friends or so.

[ladyc]

I hope we can find another solution because the kierowniczka said
that they only test for lead in samples of soil, water, sewage
(eeww) or plant substances or animal feed. She also informed me that
lead in paint is not dangerous so I suppose that I didn't explain
very well that the paint in question is peeling from the woodwork
and children could potentially eat it (I described it as płatki).
Also in renovating any woodwork different procedures are needed when
lead is involved to protect the health of the person removing the
paint and my family. Also the removed paint should be disposed of in
a proper way.

Any ideas? I was thinking about some labs which test things for the
customs office maybe. It is difficult at my level of Polish to
search the internet effectively. I don't know what key words to
enter, etc. Thanks for thinking about me :)

[ladyc]

Jesus, I spelled poison wrong in the other post. English teachers,
please forgive me!

[vickydt]

are you kidding us? ;)
Well as far as I know (i am not a chemist) the leaded petrol used to be present
everywhere and there was no mass poisoning so maybe you exaggerate a bit ;)
If somebody is taking the old paint off the walls he/she probably will wear some
protective clothing. If it is in the house building, you may assume that people
that had lived there before you came had not died that rapidly that waiting for
the paint removal will be that disastrous ;))

But I will ask a chemist for you.

[ladyc]

I don't know what part you might think I am kidding about-about the
part that I misspelled something (I'm only human) or about the lead
in the paint. I appreciate your offer to ask a chemist for me.

I'm quite serious about it because my house was built in 1935 and
some of the chipping paint work is original from then. It is quite
serious if someone (esp one of my children) were to eat a paint chip
and get lead poisoning. Lead poisoning causes a vast number of
health problems and can kill as well. If it is not lead, we can
freely scrape it off or sand it off. If it is lead, sanding it will
create lead dust which is highly dangerous. I'm not worried about
mass poisoning, just the poisoning of my family. I worked in the US
(I'm American and lead in painted woodwork was used I think into
the '70s in the US)with some children who had been exposed to lead
from chipping paint at home. I don't want to expose anyone to such a
danger.

It is true vickydt that the people living in my house before me did
not drop like flies due to lead poisoning. The man who lived in our
home died from getting drunk and falling down the stairs. He was
already in quite bad shape as he had been drinking well water from a
well situated next to our neighbors "no-bottom" szambo. Na zdrowie!

[joalma]

another idea:

www.bip.impib.pl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=57:-oddzia-zamiejscowy-farb-i-tworzyw-w-gliwicach&catid=34:profil-dziaalnoci&Itemid=66
they test "oznaczanie zawartości ołowiu, antymonu, kadmu, chromu, arsenu i baru
metodą absorpcyjnej spektrometrii atomowej (AAS)" so they should be able to
check if the paint contains any harmful chemical substances

[ladyc]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! We are sending our próbka (and 146
zl) to be tested. I'll let you know the results when they come in.

[joalma]

you're welcome :))

[vickydt]

ok, ok.

I have found sth interesting:

Jedną z możliwości branych pod uwagę, zarówno przez profesjonalistów związanych
z budownictwem jak klientów, jest metoda pokrywania farby zawierającej ołów.
Środki nanoszone na farbę stanowią uszczelnienie, zapobiegają tym samym
uwalnianiu się cząstek farby lub kurzu, które mogłyby być wdychane przez dzieci
w wieku do 6 lat, które są najbardziej zagrożone zatruciem związkami zawartymi w
farbie. Środek uszczelniający może być zarówno cieczą jak lepiszczem.
Konwencjonalne farby nie mają właściwości tworzenia uszczelniającej powłoki.
Rozprowadzenie środka uszczelniającego na powierzchni farby powoduje powstanie
bariery pomiędzy farbą ze związkami ołowiu a otoczeniem, co nie pozwala na
uwalnianiu się cząstek zawierających trujące substancje do powietrza lub na
pomalowaną powierzchnię, z którą mogą stykać się ludzie. W skład wszystkich
uszczelniaczy wchodzą polimery – związki chemiczne, które umożliwiają im
przylgnięcie do pokrywanych powierzchni. Fakt ten sam w sobie jest interesujący
ze względu na to, że producenci farb w 19 –tym stuleciu zaczęli dodawać właśnie
ołów, gdyż zapewniał on lepszą przyczepność do malowanej powierzchni niż
stosowane do tamtego czasu farby produkowane na bazie mleka. Jeden z
opracowanych środków uszczelniających zawiera polimery, które tworzą elastyczną
i odporną powłokę. Środki te można nakładać pędzlami, wałkami lub też
wykorzystując urządzenia do natrysku hydrodynamicznego. Istnieją także środki z
polimerami epoksydowymi lub poliuretanowymi, tworzące powłoki o elastycznej a
zarazem twardej powierzchni. Ten rodzaj również może być nakładany pędzlami,
wałkami lub urządzeniem do natrysku hydrodynamicznego. Opracowano również
uszczelniacze na bazie cementu, nakładane na ochranianą powierzchnię przy pomocy
kielni, zawierające polimery tworzące grubą powłokę podczas wiązania cementu.
Wszystkie wymienione środki są najbardziej skuteczne, kiedy nakłada się je na
czyste, suche i nieuszkodzone powierzchnie. Nie można stosować ich na
powierzchniach, po których się chodzi lub też na elementach trących się o siebie
w czasie użytkowania...

www.posiadlosc.com/porady.php?id=17
It is written than sometimes it is more convenient and cheaper to cover the old
paint with some sealing surface containing polymers. They also mention that
removing the old paint containing lead should be done by the specialists.

Maybe the idea is in asking some "bigger" building companies to make renovation?

Chemist's answer:

[vickydt]

my friend, a PhD in chemistry has answered my question. Let me
translate:

"To scrap the old paint it is a very expensive indertaking. Isn't it
better to repaint it? After all, covering the walls with the new
paint is quicker and as efficient,as scrapping the old one. Lead is
transfered as a volatile compound in contact with oxygene only as leaded petrol, so it is more dangerous to inhale unleaded petrol
fumes than the air in the house. Touching the substance may be
omited by repainting or alternatively, washing the old paint off as
only the dust from the paint could be dangerous. But the new paint
also contain lead, apart from the ecological ones, rather expensive.
The same is with glaze and fittins, so the question is: is it all
worth i?

All the same I know that Warsaw University, the Faculty of Chemistry,
has made such tests. Tel. [phone] ext. 324. But I do not
know if they make it for private people.

[ladyc]

Hi
No answer from the lab yet but I put some pictures of the doors on
my blog if you want to check them out.

[vickydt]

No, I do not want to look at your door. I supposed that you say 'thank you for
your efforts' at least.

[ladyc]

Thank you for your effort.

[ladyc]

My invitation still stands.