Two questions

[Gość: zgłupcowany]

What does it exactly mean in Polish:

1. Can he go in a hospital?
2. Yes, he can fly in a plane.

The problem lies in a proper understandig of the applied prepositions.

[Gość: Brooklyn]

A skąd ta pseudoangielszczyzna?

[Gość: gizmo]

Come on Brooklyn, help the guy, instead of making fun of the poor English.

[Gość: B.]

Where is YOUR help?

[Gość: gizmo]

Since you were the first one to respond I wanted to give you the chance to help
out. If you really don't want to I will. Later.

[Gość: zgłupcowany]

Gość portalu: Brooklyn napisał(a):

> A skąd ta pseudoangielszczyzna?

Już zaspokajam Twą ciekawość.
Cytowane zdania pochodzą z podręcznika: "Galaxy Starter", Student's Book,
Wydawnictwo MACMILLAN, first published 2002, ISBN 0 333 950216.

[alex113]

Gość portalu: zgłupcowany napisał(a):

> Gość portalu: Brooklyn napisał(a):
>
> > A skąd ta pseudoangielszczyzna?
>
> Już zaspokajam Twą ciekawość.
> Cytowane zdania pochodzą z podręcznika: "Galaxy Starter", Student's Book,
> Wydawnictwo MACMILLAN, first published 2002, ISBN 0 333 950216.

Czy to mialo byc cwiczenie na wylapywanie bledow ???
Bo jesli nie to proponuje ten podrecznik wyrzucic :-)

[Gość: zgłupcowany]

alex113 napisał:

> Czy to mialo byc cwiczenie na wylapywanie bledow ???
> Bo jesli nie to proponuje ten podrecznik wyrzucic :-)

Myślałem, że w tych zdaniach jest jakiś ukryty sens, którego nie łapię.
Ostatecznie w szpitalu można chodzić, a w samolocie można latać.

[alex113]

Gość portalu: zgłupcowany napisał(a):

> Myślałem, że w tych zdaniach jest jakiś ukryty sens, którego nie łapię.
> Ostatecznie w szpitalu można chodzić, a w samolocie można latać.

Tylko ze to by bylo: Can he walk in a hospital?

[Gość: gizmo]

These are probably exercises where you have to correct the sentences.

[Gość: zgłupcowany]

Gość portalu: gizmo napisał(a):

> These are probably exercises where you have to correct the sentences.

You are wrong.
Beneanth you will find the whole exercise:

3b Make questions.
1 No, he can't go in a hospital.
Can he go in a hospital? (italiki)
2 Yes, they can sleep in dark rooms.
3 No, we can't eat pizza.
4 Yes, she can fly in a plane.
5 No, I can't parachute jump.
6 Yes, he can go to the dentist.
----------------------------------------------
The next one:

4 Look at the chart. Ask and answer.
Can Susan fly in a plane?
Eric can fly in a plane but Tanya can't fly in a plane.

My remark:
I've never tried to fly in any plane. Even then, when I was allowed to unbuckle
my seatbelt.

[Gość: gizmo]

"You are wrong".

Hmmm! In that case Brooklyn and Alex are right. You are using a crappy
manual.

3b Make questions. = Pathetic form.

No, he can't go in a hospital??????????? = Poor!

Can he go in a hospital? = Very poor!

Yes, she can fly in a plane. = She must be an angel. You don't fly in a
plane, you travel by plane. OR You fly a plane.

Eric can fly in a plane but Tanya can't fly in a plane. Pleeeese!

[Gość: zgłupcowany]

Gość portalu: gizmo napisał(a):

> "You are wrong".
>
> Hmmm! In that case Brooklyn and Alex are right. You are using a crappy
> manual.
> ...

In order to claim the crappy manuals I would need some more objections
justifying my reproach.
I've found the following suspicious sentences. Let me know if I'm right.

Are the prepositions used correctly in the following sentences?
1. "After many days the space ship arrived at the planet."
2. "Alien spaceship arrives on planet Earth."

"Let's by a comic."
What does the author mean (by buying a comic)?

Activity book:
"I like the summer because we go on holiday to the seaside. It's hot and sunny
and we swim everyday. Why do you like the winter?"
I think "the" should not appear before seasons.

[tynski]

> Are the prepositions used correctly in the following sentences?
> 1. "After many days the space ship arrived at the planet."
> 2. "Alien spaceship arrives on planet Earth."

Both are OK.

> "Let's by a comic."
> What does the author mean (by buying a comic)?

Here a comic is a cartoon paper.

Activity book:
> "I like the summer because we go on holiday to the seaside. It's hot and
sunny
> and we swim everyday. Why do you like the winter?"
> I think "the" should not appear before seasons.

Both "winter" and "the winter" are OK in these sentences.

[tynski]

Gość portalu: zgłupcowany napisał(a):

> What does it exactly mean in Polish:
>
> 1. Can he go in a hospital?

Can he be in a hospital? (e.g, after visiting hours; the emphasis is on being
there rather than on entering a hospital)

> 2. Yes, he can fly in a plane.

Yes. He can bring a plane in (to its destination, as in "they fly in bananas
and oranges from Africa.")
or
Yes. He can fly, he is fit enough to be/travel on a plane (e.g., flying isn't
nauseating to him).
or
Yes. He can pilot/fly a plane.

>
> The problem lies in a proper understandig of the applied prepositions.

Yes, it does.
Keep the book and shun Alex from Brooklyn.

[tynski]

1. "In" is adverbial in the phrasal verb "to fly in" that means "to transport"
or "to bring":

The supermarket flies in fresh oranges and bananas from Africa every day.

Employers often fly in job applicants to interview them.

Is he the only one available? I know it is an emergency, but can he fly in a
plane (example: bring it in for repairs)?


2. "In" is a regular preposition to designate a location:

Can you fly in a balloon? Can you fly in a plane?

Before flying the shuttle, astronauts are required to fly in a plane to hone
their skills.

No one wants to fly in a plane with wings so flimsy that they flap around like
an overcooked wet noodle.

People who have sinus infections (stuffy nose) may experience discomfort when
they fly in a plane.


"Go" is a verb of motion and works with "in" and "into", no matter what some
people might wish things to be. "Into" gives more prominence to the fact of
entering than "in."
"In" implies location:

Those nurses are obnoxious. You go in a hospital, she stops you right
away: "Where do you think you are going? You can't go in a hospital just like
that! No, you can't go (in) there – that's the O.R."

[Gość: Bzzz]

You take a flight, you go by plane, you can fly a plane ( if you have a
license).
You are in a hospital, you stay in a hospital, you enter (go to) hospital.

[chris-joe]

here's what I had to say about the neverending ravings of Tynski:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
well -what's his face?- Tynski, generally speaking, is right, however, and I
mean a big HOWEVER, his explanations sound way too contrived therefore
unconvincing. The original problem belongs in a textbook for advanced English
linguistics and NOT a textbook for ESL students.
I can not imagine using the phrases in question in a day-to-day English or even
in a once-in-a-blue-moon English.
I don't buy it. Sorry, no sale. Gimme me my plastic back.

[zegar4]

Stop flapping your lips and say something for a change. Can you debunk what
Tynski wrote? The onus is on you.
If you can't

[Gość: gizmoj]

Guys! Let's be civilized here. This is not a "Pilka nozna" forum. We're here
to help each other and..... learn a few things in the process.

For the hell of it, I showed these two sentences to two "natives" whose Mother
Tongue is English. They laughed and agreed that it's poor English.

Tynski makes some good arguments. However, if a sentence is disected,
analyzed, and scrutinized by so many people, and there is no consensus,then the
sentence is AMBIGUOUS and should not be in a student manual. So "forged aboud
id"!.

There you go, zglupcowany. Bet you're still confused! No need to get rid of
the manual. Don't get discouraged. Poor English is better than NO English
(Wow! Am i going to get flamed for this one!!!!!!!!!) Ciao!

[chris-joe]

In your comments to my post I have sensed a slight undertone of disagreement.
Or is it my paranoia speaking?

Let me recap what I have stated earlier:
The phrases in question CAN and DO exist in English (as skilfully explained by
Tynski), however in a very specific context. Placed out of context, as in the
quoted exercise, they nearly ammount to incomprehensible gibberish. And
placing them out of context in a ESL textbook is a complete misunderstanding.
In my humble opinion, that is.

Out of curiosity: given your reaction to a post on a marginal linguistic issue
in a marginal internet forum, how do you react to genuine problems in real
life? Murder?

[gizmoj]

Chris-joe, I trust that you're responding to zegar4. I agree he's being a
little tough on you.

[chris-joe]

yes, I was responding to zegar:)

[Gość: student]

So whats wrong with these two sentences? They seem to be widely used.


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It is a classc, they are going to quote it!!!!!!!!

[republican]

This very incisive conversation will be remembered forever.
One is reminded of another immortal jewel:
www.baseball-almanac.com/humor4.shtml

CLASSIC of course, sorry

[republican]

republican napisał:

> This very incisive conversation will be remembered forever.
> One is reminded of another immortal jewel:
> www.baseball-almanac.com/humor4.shtml

[Gość: gizmoj]

You know what? If you think those sententes are correct, use them. I'm tired
of this tread. Some to the quotes you're using could very well be used to
support my argument, because they're taken completely out of context.

"1. Can he go in a hospital? 2. Yes, he can fly in a plane."

You want to use this type of English? Use it! I don't feel like spending
another month discussing this b.s.

[Gość: student]

I don't know if they are correct or not. My standard procedure, when I am in
doubt, is to go to a search engine and look for some answers. In this case I
went to www.google.com entered '"go in a hospital" dictionary OR glossary OR
words OR terms OR lexicon' and pressed search button. The result tells me that
the expressions "go in a hospital" and "fly in a plane" are widely used,
furthermore they were used in the exercise written by a linquist. On the other
hand you and some people here say the expressions are wrong, but I have only
your world for it. Unfortunately, you haven't justified it anywhere so far. So
let me repeat the question 'Why are these sentences not correct?' Could you
produce some hard evidence confirming your opinion, in the form of some links
pertaining to the subject, please.

PS follow this link and you'll find the context
www.google.com/search?hl=pl&inlang=pl&ie=ISO-8859-2&q=%22go+in+a+hospital%
22+dictionary+OR+glossary+OR+words+OR+terms+OR+lexicon&btnG=Szukaj+z+Google&lr=

[Gość: student]

www.google.com/search?hl=pl&inlang=pl&ie=ISO-8859-2&q=%22go+in+a+hospital%
22+dictionary+OR+glossary+OR+words+OR+terms+OR+lexicon&btnG=Szukaj+z+Google&lr=

Sorry somehow it hasn't worked. The way to go around this problem is to copy
and paste the link above manually into your browser

[chris-joe]

let me repeat myself here (and, please, student, reread this carefully):

"The phrases in question CAN and DO exist in English (as skilfully explained by
Tynski), however in a very specific context. Placed out of context, as in the
quoted exercise, they nearly ammount to incomprehensible gibberish. And
placing them out of context in a ESL textbook is a complete misunderstanding.
In my humble opinion, that is."

I hereby declare the subjest exhausted.
Talk to you elsewhere,
c-j

[gizmoj]

1. Can he go in a hospital?
2. Yes, he can fly in a plane.

I'll give you two more sentences: Eg.1. A patient really needs to pee. Well,
he can go (pee) in a hospital bed. (It's a little weak but ok.) Here "he can
go in a hospital" is used in a different context.

Eg.2. Yes, he can fly in a plane full of people. Again "he can fly in a plane"
is used in a diff. context. Just adding "full of people" improved the sentence.

You can play around with a lot of the quotes that you have cited, but the
original sentences are still written in poor English.

Now, how can I prove it? I can't! I'm not a linguist and I don't feel like
doing a whole lot of research on two trivial sentences just to prove that I'm
right. So there! You win! If those sentences are so widely used, then go
ahead and use them. Like I said before, poor English is better than no English.
Have fun and enjoy. And like Chris-joe I'll see you on other posts, bec. I'm
really tired of this tread. Pozdrawiam.

[tynski]

You are wetting youselves and you keep arguing it is raining. Next time zip
your flies open first.
Well, now I know. You two dimwits are morons. Does it mean your IQs are between
50 and 69? Or are you two just lacking in good judgement? I don't care. No need
to disambiguate.

[tynski]

Gość portalu: student napisał(a):

> So whats wrong with these two sentences? They seem to be widely used.

N-O-T-H-I-N-G!!!