Mobbing

IP: *.emu.int.pl / *.int.pl 24.11.03, 20:32
Witam,
czy ktoś może rozwiać moje wątpliwości i podać etymologie tego słowa?
Pisze prace z ZZL i chciałbym o tym trochę wtrącić.
Czytałem ze wyraz ten pochodzi z angielskiego, znam dość dobrze ten język i
nigdy nie słyszałem aby ten wyraz był w użyciu w tym kontekście- znęcanie
się nad kimś zwłaszcza psychiczne nazywa się raczej „bullied”.
    • etbl Re: Mobbing 24.11.03, 21:20
      Istnieje rzeczownik "mob", ktory ma trzy znaczenia:

      1.tlum ludzi - duzy, niezorganizowany, czesto gwaltowny

      Bottles and cans were hurled on the speaker by the mob.

      A mob of demonstrators was gathering.

      2.Czasem uzywa sie tego slowa pejoratywnie w stosunku do wiekszosci ludzi (np.
      w jakims kraju) zachowujacych sie w sposob gwaltowny:

      There is what amounts to mob rule in this country.


      3."the Mob" to mafia

      It was a Mob killing.

      Jesli mowi sie, ze "someone is being mobbed", to znaczy to, ze ktos wobec
      innego zachowuje sie w sposob grozacy, zagrazajacy:

      The pickpocket was mobbed by angry women.

      A, (o dziwo) moze to rowniez oznaczac entuzjastyczne zachowanie:

      They found themselves being mobbed in the street for autographs.

      Tyle moge Ci pomoc. Moze ktos cos jeszcze doda.

      • Gość: steph Re: Mobbing IP: *.in-addr.btopenworld.com 25.11.03, 00:11
        Bulling applies as much to school as to a work place and it's not in any way a
        synonim of mobbing..
        'To mob' znaczy wywierac nacisk, naklaniac.
    • Gość: Lily Re: Mobbing IP: *.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl 24.11.03, 21:33
      Bullying refers to abuse at school. Mobbing is like bullying, but at workplace.
      For example a boss can mob an employee. The term "mobbing" is used in Polish as
      well. You can hear it sometimes on the radio or TV.
      • Gość: Foxy Re: Mobbing IP: *.emu.int.pl / *.int.pl 24.11.03, 23:18
        Thanks Lily, somehow I had never herd this in “polish” meaning in UK-maybe is
        new meaning or I was not careful enough. So the sadist boss definitely mob
        employee?
        • Gość: Lily Re: Mobbing IP: *.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl 25.11.03, 00:41
          You can read more about mobbing here:

          www.exbis.com.pl/strony_www/www/vade_16.htm
          www.swiatpsychologii.pl/kariera/mobbing.html
          praca.gazeta.pl/praca/1,47391,736298.html
      • Gość: cm Re: Mobbing IP: *.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com 25.11.03, 01:15
        Actually mobbing requires more than one person, thus your example of a boss is
        not correct. A boss could bully or intimidate you but not mobb you.
        Unless of course he/she is really, really big. ;)
        • Gość: Lily Re: Mobbing IP: *.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl 25.11.03, 01:57
          Mobbing does not require more than one person (unless the other person we are
          talking about is the mobbed employee). Please read the extract form one of the
          articles I listed before:


          "W jednym z hipermarketów na Śląsku grupa pracowników chciała założyć związek
          zawodowy. Zebrali 16 podpisów grupy inicjatywnej i już miano go zarejestrować,
          gdy nagle każdego z inicjatorów zaczęto wzywać do dyrekcji. Dyrektor rozmawiał
          z nimi w ten sposób: - możemy jeszcze dzisiaj przeprowadzić reorganizację,
          zlikwidować pewne stanowiska, wtedy nawet pracownicy z umowami stałymi mogą
          stracić pracę.

          Jest to klasyczny przejaw mobbingu czyli używania słów i zachowań godzących w
          godność człowieka i jego podstawowe prawa."


          So, as you see, one person mobbed a group of employees. So I guess my example
          of a boss who mobbed one employee is correct :-)
          • zegar4 Re: Mobbing 25.11.03, 02:15

            That's a peculiar understanding of "mobbing".

            Main Entry: 2mob
            Function: transitive verb
            Inflected Form(s): mobbed; mob·bing
            Date: 1709
            1 : to crowd about and attack or annoy <mobbed by autograph hunters> <a crow
            mobbed by songbirds>
            2 : to crowd into or around <customers mob the stores on sale days>


            mob
            noun
            1a. A large, disorderly crowd;
            Thesaurus: throng, gang, pack, horde, multitude, assemblage, populace, crowd,
            gathering.

            Example: mob rule
            2. colloq
            Any group or gang.
            3. colloq
            Ordinary people; the masses.
            Thesaurus: plebeians, proletariat, common herd, the great unwashed, masses, hoi
            polloi, riff-raff.
            Form: the mob
            4. An organized gang of criminals, especially the Mafia.
            Form: the mob
            (Austral)
            (NZ)
            5. A large herd or flock.
            verb mobbed, mobbing
            1. To attack something or someone as a mob.
            Thesaurus: attack, descend on, besiege, overrun, overwhelm, storm.
            2. To crowd round someone or something, especially curiously or admiringly.
            intr
            3. To form into a mob.
            (especially N Amer)
            4. To crowd into (a building, shop, etc).
            Derivative: mobbed
            adj
            colloq
            Densely crowded; packed with people.
            Etymology: 17c: shortening of Latin mobile vulgus fickle masses.
            • Gość: Lily Re: Mobbing IP: *.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl 25.11.03, 02:25
              Peculiar or not, I'm using the context Foxy suggested :-) He said he is writing
              an essay about ZZL (which stands for Zarządzanie Zasobami Ludzkimi). He also
              said:

              "Czytałem ze wyraz ten pochodzi z angielskiego, znam dość dobrze ten język i
              nigdy nie słyszałem aby ten wyraz był w użyciu w tym kontekście- znęcanie
              się nad kimś zwłaszcza psychiczne nazywa się raczej „bullied”."

              So I explained the word usind this context :-) Of course the word "mob" have
              more meanings (like many English words do), but I think that copying
              information from a dictionary and writing it here (what you just did) won't
              help Foxy at all in his essay :-)



              • Gość: wacko jacko Lilly you are wrong, cm is right. IP: *.nyc.rr.com 25.11.03, 03:09
            • Gość: Foxy Re: Mobbing IP: *.emu.int.pl / *.int.pl 25.11.03, 21:03
              Dzieki zegarku ale tak sie sklada ze mam Oxford Dictionary i nie musisz go
              przepisywac, a jak mogles przepisujac z mozolem zuwazyc znaczenia o ktore pytam
              w slowniku nie ma- wiec czemu ma sluzyc Twoj post?
              • tynski Re: Mobbing 26.11.03, 07:34
                Since you have a dictionary, stop diddling yourself to it and crack it open for
                a change. It won't hurt you if at the same time you look up "etymology". Break
                a sweat.
                • Gość: Foxy Re: Mobbing IP: *.emu.int.pl / *.int.pl 26.11.03, 21:21
                  Hi tynski- you clever one , what’s a good idea , and if you loved to be bitchy
                  take a trouble to read it properly this meaning is not listed in any available
                  (for me)dictionary. Doesn’t matter how hard I try to open it.
          • Gość: cm Re: Mobbing IP: *.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com 25.11.03, 05:59
            If you use "mobbed" in Polish then you may be correct, and I would not argue
            the point. If you use it in an english speaking country to describe the same
            situation, you will not be understood. The term is used to describe a group.
            This is the common usage and that is the true test of any word or phrase,
            regardless of its origin or original usage. English is constantly changing and
            one should use the current usage. As an example, if you were to describe
            someone as "gay" the meaning now and 100 years ago is very different.
          • Gość: Tamtejszy Re: Mobbing IP: *.proxy.aol.com 26.11.03, 02:16
            Bardzo przepraszam, ale to są kopletne brednie.
            Mob znaczy tłum, tłum wywołujący tumult. Słowa mobbing w tej formie nie
            znalazłem w żadnym dużym nawet słowniku języka angielskiego. Skoro mówimy tutaj
            o słowie angielskim, a nie "polskim", angielskie znaczenia obowiązują.
            "Teenagers mobbed their idol as he left the theater".
            Oczywiście, polscy lingwiści medialni znają lepiej obydwa języki niż ktokolwiek
            inny...
        • Gość: steph Re: Mobbing IP: *.in-addr.btopenworld.com 25.11.03, 21:14
          Agreed, cm is right. Lily seems to be serving a Polish interpretation,
          documented by Polish articles, with unmissingly Polish confidence of a home
          grown expert. Who are we to disagree?
          • Gość: nanouk Re: Mobbing IP: *.icpnet.pl 25.11.03, 21:20
            As a native English user, I can confirm that cm is correct. Mobbing (and
            definitely a mob) implies a group of people, not the intimidation of one
            individual.
            • Gość: Lily Re: Mobbing IP: *.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl 26.11.03, 01:09
              Well, I guess you guys are right. I tried to be helpful... :-)

              I heard the term "mobbing" many times on the Polish radio, and I've read lots
              of Polish articles about it (by Polish journalists, psychologists, managers
              etc.) and I thought this term is used by native speakers the same way.

              How is it possible that nobody of those "experts" checked the meaning of the
              word???

              Anyway, Foxy, sorry for confusing you. I just wanted to help :-) Well, at least
              I learned something... :-)
              • Gość: cm Re: Mobbing IP: *.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com 26.11.03, 02:25
                And you did help. You presented a reasoned argument backed by documentation of
                a particular interpretation of the word. This caused others to think and
                present their own versions, not all as well presented as yours, I might add.

                This illustrates how even well educated people can often be wrong. I would
                like to see their explanation of a "flash mob", using their meaning of a mob.

                Well done Lily.
                • Gość: steph Re: Mobbing IP: *.in-addr.btopenworld.com 26.11.03, 07:19
                  Isn't it a group of people gathering rapidly at a prearranged location, then
                  dispersing equally rapidly? Otherwords, a mob created and disbanded in a flash?
                  • Gość: Nanouk to steph IP: *.icpnet.pl 26.11.03, 08:56
                    It can also mean thst. A mob is genereally a group of people, but always with
                    the implication of some kind of intimidation, e.g. An angry mob gathered
                    outside the building. We know it's a group of people and their aim is to apply
                    pressure. Hope this helps.
                    • Gość: steph Re: to steph IP: *.in-addr.btopenworld.com 26.11.03, 18:31
                      Sorry, but you are simply stating the obvious. Anyway, I wasn't aware of any
                      request for help.
                • Gość: Lily Re: Mobbing IP: *.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl 26.11.03, 14:25
                  I can prove you were right :-) I found an article in the internet:

                  www.law-office.demon.co.uk/art%20mobbing-1.htm

                  It says:

                  "Mobbing, as described by Herr Zucker, shows itself in three ways, (1) by
                  employees against a colleague, (2) by employees against a subordinate and (3)
                  by employees against a superior. "


                  It is always by a group of employees, so as you said, mobbing requires more
                  than one person :-) I hope that at least this article will help Foxy somehow :-)
                  • Gość: Tamtejszy Re: Mobbing IP: *.proxy.aol.com 26.11.03, 22:42
                    This proves only one thing: Biritish English is not American English. We are
                    barking at two different trees. In A.E. dictionaries there is no mention of
                    employees.
                    I wonder how it is in Canadian English, Irish English, Australian English, E.U
                    English, and so on.
    • Gość: Zdzisio Re: Mobbing or rather BULLYING IP: 207.34.88.* 26.11.03, 07:21
      Foxy, I glanced this site. Well..the world: "mobbing". It looks like to me as
      an interesting creation of Polish language. I am ready to swear, that I never
      heard this word anywhere else in the world, exept Poland, in such meanning as
      is proposed. Bullying, this world seems to be used frequently in respect to
      group of persons imposing pressure (frequently physical) on another weaker one.

      Foxy, do not play a chicken. Fight in your work recent littering of the Polish
      linguage by large number of foreign worlds such as for example: ranking,
      lobbing, ......mobbing, which not always are used correctly.
      Cheers
    • Gość: Foxy Re: Mobbing IP: *.emu.int.pl / *.int.pl 26.11.03, 21:34
      Dzieki wszystkim, szczegolnie Lily za interesujacy link ale musze dodac malo
      odkrywcze stwierdzenie wiem ze nic nie wiem!Angielskie slowo uzywane w polskim
      jezyku w znaczeniu nie istniejacym w krajach anglosaskich- niezly bajzel.
    • Gość: cm Everyone is correct---- my final comments. cm IP: *.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com 27.11.03, 02:02
      I was very surprised to see the different view of what I thought was a common
      word. It's meaning to myself and others that I asked was always a group acting
      against an individual and it may or may not be physical.

      After checking several dictionaries this view was confirmed, but I remained
      puzzled as to why there was this unusual,to me,interpretation of the word.

      Doing some checking I discovered what may be the difference. It seems, that
      about 1984 a Professor Heinz Leymann in Sweden did some research on conflict in
      the workplace. Not wanting to use the word bullying he chose mobbing to
      describe the concept of this conflict in which he described the victim as
      being "subjected to a systematic, stigmatizing process and encroachment of his
      or her civil rights". He also explained that this process may be carried out
      by one or more individuals, must occur freaquently (at least weekly), and over
      an extended period of time (at least six months).

      You can read all about it at this link www.leymann.se/

      It appears that this usage was adopted by others in psychological research
      mostly in European contries.

      Therefore this usage seems to be in common usage in continental Europe but not
      in other english speaking countries. Thus if used in Polish that would be the
      correct usage of the term "mobbing". Use the same word in North America and
      you would get a different interpretation.

      Lily you were right and so was I.

      Einstein was right, everything is relative.

      I now know much more than I ever wanted to about mobbing.
      • Gość: Rys Re: Everyone is correct---- my final comments. IP: *.proxy.aol.com 27.11.03, 08:57
        English speaking continental Europe......? Does it mean....POLAND?
    • Gość: Pikasso Re: Mobbing IP: 66.98.130.* 27.11.03, 03:49
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