Porto i Benfica

[endereco]

Mam pytanie do maniaków portugalskiego futbolu.
Mój korepetytor, nieodżałowany Lino Matos potrafił w meczu finałowym Pucharu
UEFA FC Porto - Celtic Glasgow kibicować Celtikowi, gdyż jako fanatyczny
kibic Benfiki nienawidzi Porto. Czy jest to postawa odosobniona, czy też
nienawiść na tle piłkarskim jest aż tak głeboko zakorzeniona?

[xavier111]

Pomimo ze nie jestem maniakiem portugalskiego futbolu ani zadnego innego
odpowiem na to pytanie: nie, nie jest to postawa odosobniona. chociaz
oczywiscie nie wszyscy kibice porto czy benfiki sa az tak zaslepieni
nienawiscia do konkurencyjnego klubu, nie jest to postawa odosobniona. jest
takich sporo.

[keepersmaid]

Sposrod Trzeh Wielkich (Três Grandes) w podobnej sytuacji gdyby zamiast Porto
wystepowal Sporting to benfiquista by kibicowal portugalskiemu klubowi, bo
portugalski i tez z Lizbony i wogole swoj. I vice versa - kibice Sportingu
byliby za Benfica, a nie za jakims klubem zagranicznym.
Porto jest wogole wrogiem - klub FC Porto symbolizuje duza wiecej niz tylko
futbol, cos jak kiedys Legia-Gornik = Warszawa-Slask czy Warszawa-reszta Polski.

[portulaco]

I read with interest all the comments about Porto x Benfica and I found quite
accurate Keepersmaid's one.

I'm portista and as many other portistas I don't like benfica, and I was born
in the district of Sao Domingos de Benfica, Lisbon ;-).

Many years ago FCP (Futebol Clube do Porto) was this kind of poor-country-side-
club allways loosing to SLB (Sport Lisboa e Benfica) and SCP (Sporting Clube de
Portugal). Benfica was Antonio de Oliveira Salazar protegee and Sporting the
bourgois club, in midd 80's FCP started winning and annoing the dominance of
Lisbon clubs.

Of course the conflict has started, together with the feeling of North of
Portugal as "Nacao" i.e. independent from the capital and the concentration of
power around Lisbon and lisboneers.

Helping this "independence wish" -apears the president of FCP Mr. Pinto da
Costa, worshiped by portistas and hated to the bone by everybody else.
Non supporters of Porto say he's the portuguese "Berlusconi" the mafia itself,
the greatest corruptor of referees and the real reason way Porto is a champion.

Independent of him Porto is a winner and has proved it many times.

What is curious is the fact that many benfiquistas are in the North of Portugal
and usually this ones usually are more furious than the ones from Lisbon.

In my opinion Sporting is the club which makes the balance.It's better to loose
to Sporting than to Benfica or Porto.

Personnal remark: Me - being portista - I don't mind if Benfica looses to a
foreign team but to be openly againts them - I found it ridiculous.

Good news... I live in Poland and I'm 3200 Km from them ;-)

[endereco]

I've heard that Pinto da Costa is considered a sort of mafioso. By the way,
what kind of business is he involved in?
As for the hatred between benfiquistas and sportinguistas, I remember my
Portuguese teacher telling me about a cab driver who, as a Benfica fan, refused
to give a lift to all the passengers going to Alvalade (hi,hi).
I noticed also that in spite of the rivalry, there is hardly any violence
among the football fans. Is it really like that? I remember my Portuguese host
family going together to Estadio da Luz to see a Sporting-Benfica confrontation
(small kids and elderly people included). I must say I was really jalous
because I would never dare to go to see a match Legia-Polonia due to our
hooligans' actions...

[keepersmaid]

"By the way, what kind of business is he involved in?"
Football, that's the problem, he has no life outside football.

[endereco]

Naprawdę? Utrzymuje się jedynie z prezesowania FC Porto? Musiał się przecież na
czymś dorobić zanim został prezesem tego klubu.

[portulaco]

Hello Endereco and sorry for my delay in answering you.


I know that Pinto da Costa belongs to a wealthy
family, he studied in a catholic college (called Colegio Nun' Alvares)and
nowadays he's engaged in many cultural and social activities in the city of
Porto. He always refused to take part in politics or to be mayor of this city,
in spite of constant pressure.

He's an owner of a very fancy and expansive antique shop in Porto city and has
real estate bussinesses too.

As Keepersmaid said his main bussiness is football and the mentor of Futebol
Clube do Porto S.A.D. "Sociedade Anonima Desportiva" was him, this means that
he transformed the club in a enterprise.

Of course that bussiness involving incredible amounts of money are always
surronded with "monkey bussiness" stories, corruption, bribing and many other
ways of forcing, pressing or accelerating situations and people.

If Pinto da Costa pays to win for sure he's not the only one in Portugal.


To finish I recall that the last great violent happening in a portuguese
football stadium was around 10 years ago in Alvalade, Lisboa.
A Sporting fan called Ricardo was killed when a Very-Light fired from the side
of the Benfica supporters crossed his chest, he left a wife and a few months
old baby.

[endereco]

Thanks for your answer. It's good to find out sth about Pinto da Costa from an
objective person. Since my Portuguese teacher is a big fan of Benfica he told
me nothing but some nasty things about FC Porto president, which is not
surprising.

[keepersmaid]

Mhm, yeah, what he said. What i ment is that Pinto da Costa is not very wealhy
outside football Abramovich-style. He wouldn't be able to finance ex. purchase
of a good player.
If it wasn't for his activity as Porto president he would be just another well
off person, but nothing extraordinary.
He is a curious personality - on one side he loves poetry and would say poems
during gatherings with friends etc. on the other hand his comments on football
and Lisbon are truly vitriolic.
He is also known now for having a girlfriend half his age, who, so it's said,
used to work in some shady nightclub...

[endereco]

> He is also known now for having a girlfriend half his age, who, so it's said,
> used to work in some shady nightclub...

Well, ALMOST every middle-aged guy would dream about it:)

[portulaco]

Everything you said is thrue. But doesn't make him worse or better person, he
has a new girlfriend and before his wife,who used to be his secretary &
who "robbed" him from his first wife.

Generaly people betray each other but when they are known or famous it is a
scandal, if Mr. Joao wife is betraying the husband with his best friend this
won't be in the news, will it?

Pinto da Costa's son is one of the greatest football buyers in Portugal and
some say his father is his sponsor.

In a country were everything is concentrated in Lisbon or as Portuguese
say "Portugal e Lisboa e o resto e paisagem"- it can be translated as Portugal
is Lisbon the rest is nothing but landscape,it's very good to have somebody who
will defend the "landscape" against the Lisboneers' arrogance and power.

This power doesn't tolerate people like Pinto da Costa. He's a "Persona non
grata" who has never shown fear.

Personnal remark: I'm FCP supporter and I don't like too much Pinto da Costa,
he's a teaser, though I think he's needed to cool down Lisbon supremacy over
the country.

[keepersmaid]

As an "adopted Lisboneer" let me tell you that i'm sometimes tired of this
eternal rivalry. At times it's ridiculos that people criticize something or
someone just because they come from North or South or they are fans of this or
that club.
Like him or not, Pinto da Costa is a personality, but he becomes much more
interesting person when he speaks of unrelated subjects, like literature,
without all that harping about Lisbon, South, Benfica, referees...

Adopted Lisboneer

[portulaco]

I agree with you. Such a small country shouldn't have this kind of rivalry,
it's a little bit like "village family" fight but portuguese need to have some
entertainement. Spain is the only neighbour and they don't give a damn to us.

I was born in Lisbon in Sao Domingos de Benfica- have you visited it?

Sorry for joining your discussion

[endereco]

but this eternal rivalry between Lisbon and the rest of Portugal reminds me the
hatred between Warsaw and the rest of Poland.
I come from a middle-size town in Southern Poland but I studied and now have
been working in the capital. I must say I am really fed up with restless
reproaches made to the dwellers of Warsaw by the inhabitants of other Polish
cities, towns and villages. The most irritating thing about them is that most
often they are made by the people who were born elsewhere but came to Warsaw in
search of better living conditions. If they really feel in Warsaw as bad as
they declare, if they are constantly mocked up and treated badly by the local
people, why won't they come back to their hometowns and stop complaining?