Learning the third language...

[chris-joe]

Here it is:
some of us moved to an English speaking country, mastered the language, even
aquired the accent to the extent that no other fellow immigrant can tell us
apart from the natives, while the natives are slightly puzzled by the
question: which part of the country do we come from.

Then we move again. In my case from Vancouver,BC,Canada to Montreal,QC
(Canada, for the time being).

While learning French, all of the sudden I hear myself speaking (for the first
time in years) with what definitely is a Polish accent.

Fine. But then I also commit the mistake which, I have learned years ago, one
should never commit when learning a new language, that is to translate from
one language to another. Meaning: you don't translate word to word, but
concept to concept, idea to idea, like the Chinese characters.

And when I err doing so, I translate from my second language (English) to the
third, rather than from my first (Polish); even though I discover time and
time again that it would make way more sense to "think" Polish and not in
English when translating.
Polish phraseology seems to be so much closer to the French one than the
English phraseology does. I'll use the simplest example of translating "I'm
forty" into "Je suis 40 ans", when the correct French version is "J'ai 40
ans", just like "Mam 40 lat" in Polish.
And I could go on :)

So, to philosophize a bit, the blessing of having aquired a second language
may turn to be a curse when trying to aquire a third one. The point of
gravity may have shifted. Or linguistic gravity may have disappeared
altogether, and moving from one language to another permanently may have put
us into a unbearable lightness of linguistic being :)))

Comments? Vos opinions?

[gosiash]

I think there is logic to it. Both languages English and now French are not
your native that's why they're linked together more. I remember when I was in
secondary school amd was learning Russian and English. My English became much
better then my Russian pretty soon. And after that whenever I was to say
something in Russian I couldn't find proper words 'cos I instead of Russian
English words where coming to me :) So it's just a mental connection between
two acquired languages.
Then again there is also another explanation. You're probably using English
more often than Polish that's why you relate your French to your English more.
Anyway, funny thing brain...

[chris-joe]

Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about, gosiash:)
Years ago I lived in Greece for a little while where I spoke mostly English but
became quite fluent in Greek as well. On the few occasions that I met some
Russians and tried to speak Russian with them, after the initial few words in
Russian Greek would kick in. I could not control it. It was as if some part of
my brain took over the rest. It was extremely frustrating.

And you're right guessing that I speak mostly in English. In fact, during the
15 yrs that I lived on the West Coast, I hardly used Polish at all. My second
language sort of learned to think it was my first:) I dreamed, thought (the
"verbal" thoughts), counted to myself all in English.
When I moved to the new linguistic reality and had to start speaking in a new
language, my poor brain got a bit confused.

At the same time when I moved to Quebec I also started my internet activities in
Polish. As a result I use Polish (although it's a passive use most of the time)
to the extent I have never used it since I left Poland 20 yrs ago.

So, at home I speak French with my partner, I use Polish on the internet quite a
bit, while English remains a language of my choice and preference.
I am considered in QC -and consider myself- an anglophone rather than an allophone.

Yet, to my surprise, I sometimes catch myself -for the first time in years-
yelling at my cat in Polish, and at the gym when I count reps when weightlifting
I switch freely between English and Polish for no apparent reason.
But when I yell at my partner I do it in English:))

It's as if Polish seized the opportunity of the general state of linguistic
confusion I'm in to come and try to claim its birthright. While English doesn't
seem to be willing to give up that easily.
Go figure:))

[asdf401]

I just came back from a burger place with a chicken sandwich and some fries. It
was good. Thank you. Anyway I was ordring the thing in polish with two english
words included in a sentence: "Poproszę chicken sandwich na wynos". Then I
stepped outside for some time, checked the timetable on the bus stop and came
back to pick it up. A girl was just packing my meal and I kind of spontaneusly
bursted out entusiasticly in English: "It looks so...." ... I was going to say
"good" or "tasty" but I bit my tongue and instead of have said in polish:
"Wygląda tak smacznie! What came out of me was some sort of fast translation!! I
hope it's clear.

[pomponick]

chris-joe napisał:


> And when I err doing so, I translate from my second language (English) to the
> third, rather than from my first (Polish);

I think I understand that:)
The other day there was a neighbour's boy who came to my place with some 'very
difficult problems' to deal with. After a while, knowing that German was his
first foreign language, I resorted to showing him the way the thing worked in
German. Apparently it helped... Then I strated to wander what drove ME to going
for a German phrase even though it could have been easily explained in Polish
(I guess)


> unbearable lightness of linguistic being :)))
>

:))) :)))) :))))
how cute:)))

[ms.jones]

I've been trying to learn French for the last two years. One evening class a
week ain't much, but that's how it's done here. I was amazed how useful my
Polish was in picking up new vocabulary (especially in reading)- on top of all
the similarities to English - it's great! I was the best in class in making
associations, even if I say so myself. :) I did find that Polish started to
interfere with my English in class - an odd Polish word would creep in
unexpectedly here and there, making me sound a right idiot. I think it was
partly to do with being tired but obviously a lot to do with keeping my
Polish 'on stand by'.
I'm sure your Polish helps you with passive grip French structures and
vocabulary but otherwise it sounds like what you're describing confirms the
truism of 'use it or lose it' - you translate from the language that you've
been actively using for the last 20 years or so. A bit like a blind person
who's regained sight after many years but can't recognise a square as a square
unless they touch it, even though they know full well that a shape with four
equal sides and four right angles is a square. I don't think you can bypass the
translating business at an early stage, before the new structures can take
root/'bed down' enough through practice to become automatic. Perhaps if you
take up Spanish or Italian or something, your brain will get the message that
you're a human tower of Babel and all these languages will start pulling their
wight. Or not. :)